Discussion:
Met Traviata: a question?
(too old to reply)
Terrymelin
2003-10-22 18:48:33 UTC
Permalink
I realize that Miss Fleming used her own gowns so that they might not match the
other costumes on stage.

But I am curious about some of the other costumes which seem odd. In the Act
One party scene there are many people in what would pass for "black tie formal"
in the 19th century but others who seem to be in day dresses and clothes. This
doesn't make any sense to me. Did they have "black tie optional" in 1850?

Also, there is one prominent and tall black woman in the chorus who is dressed
a bit like Winnie Mandela in full African gear. What is that supposed to be
about?

Terry Ellsworth
c***@hotmail.com
2003-10-22 19:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Well, hell, Terry - it *was* a party.

~Roger
Terrymelin
2003-10-22 22:24:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@hotmail.com
Well, hell, Terry - it *was* a party.
~Roger
I don't get your point. No African woman -- dressed in full native regalia --
would be at a party in a Paris house in 1850.

Terry Ellsworth
c***@hotmail.com
2003-10-22 23:22:57 UTC
Permalink
Just attempting a little humor, which was apparently lost on you.
I'm sure I don't know what it was all about. However, I'm not sure that
you're qualified to state who couldn't be found at a mid-19th century
party in Paris. An entertainer, perhaps. I assume you didn't have a
problem when the Gypsies and Matadors appeared?

~ Roger
Terrymelin
2003-10-23 13:18:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@hotmail.com
Just attempting a little humor, which was apparently lost on you.
Very little humour, which is why it was lost on me.
Post by c***@hotmail.com
However, I'm not sure that
you're qualified to state who couldn't be found at a mid-19th century
party in Paris. An entertainer, perhaps. I assume you didn't have a
problem when the Gypsies and Matadors appeared?
And on what basis would you make that ridiculous statement. The woman wasn't
entertaining. She was a guest at the party.

Terry Ellsworth
Commspkmn
2003-10-23 14:33:53 UTC
Permalink
***@aol.com wrote:
<< And on what basis would you make that ridiculous statement. The woman wasn't
entertaining. She was a guest at the party.

Terry Ellsworth >>

Actually, Terry she was very entertaining. A marvelous raconteuse, you should
have heard her stories about her adventures in darkest Africa!
Best,
Ken
GRNDPADAVE
2003-10-23 15:01:36 UTC
Permalink
Date: 10/23/2003 9:33 AM Central Daylight Time
<< And on what basis would you make that ridiculous statement. The woman wasn't
entertaining. She was a guest at the party.
Terry Ellsworth >>
Actually, Terry she was very entertaining. A marvelous raconteuse, you should
have heard her stories about her adventures in darkest Africa!
Best,
Ken
~~~~~~~~~~~
Was she the one who happened to catch an elephant in her pajamas?

==G/P Dave
Commspkmn
2003-10-23 15:06:15 UTC
Permalink
***@aol.com wrote:
<< Was she the one who happened to catch an elephant in her pajamas?

==G/P Dave >>

Dave, I needed a good laugh today. Thanks for providing it (with my favorite
Groucho line of all time)!
Best,
Ken
GRNDPADAVE
2003-10-23 15:24:25 UTC
Permalink
Date: 10/23/2003 10:06 AM Central Daylight Time
<< Was she the one who happened to catch an elephant in her pajamas?
==G/P Dave >>
Dave, I needed a good laugh today. Thanks for providing it (with my favorite
Groucho line of all time)!
Best,
Ken
~~~~~~~~~
Ken, I don't know why, but my favorite line occurs in "Horsefeathers" when
Quicy Adams Flagstaff exclaims to his son:

"I'd horsewhip you (if I had a horse)."

As for "Animal Crackers" I pretty much love the bit about the letter to the law
firm of:

"Hoongerdoonger, Hoongerdoonger, Hoongerdoonger and McCormack."

Please excuse me if I omitted a Hoongerdoonger.

==G/P Dave
REG
2003-10-24 03:38:25 UTC
Permalink
WRONG !!! The best line is in Duck Soup

"We're fighting to defend her honor, which is more than she's ever done."
Post by GRNDPADAVE
Date: 10/23/2003 10:06 AM Central Daylight Time
<< Was she the one who happened to catch an elephant in her pajamas?
==G/P Dave >>
Dave, I needed a good laugh today. Thanks for providing it (with my favorite
Groucho line of all time)!
Best,
Ken
~~~~~~~~~
Ken, I don't know why, but my favorite line occurs in "Horsefeathers" when
"I'd horsewhip you (if I had a horse)."
As for "Animal Crackers" I pretty much love the bit about the letter to the law
"Hoongerdoonger, Hoongerdoonger, Hoongerdoonger and McCormack."
Please excuse me if I omitted a Hoongerdoonger.
==G/P Dave
Ancona21
2003-10-24 16:25:10 UTC
Permalink
<< WRONG !!! The best line is in Duck Soup >>


Uh, huh. By all means, let's have a thread on favorite lines from the Three
Rude Dwarfs canon.

Ancona
GRNDPADAVE
2003-10-24 16:31:47 UTC
Permalink
Date: 10/24/2003 11:25 AM Central Daylight Time
<< WRONG !!! The best line is in Duck Soup >>
Uh, huh. By all means, let's have a thread on favorite lines from the Three
Rude Dwarfs canon.
Ancona
~~~~~~~~~~
Sir,

You, being the Connoisseur of Rude, should fire your own cannon first.

As for "Dwarf," that would seem most apt in describing *your* spiritual
magnitude.

Do oblige us by following your own advice.

Thank you.
==G/P Dave
Ancona21
2003-10-24 16:48:27 UTC
Permalink
From: ***@aol.com :

<< You, being the Connoisseur of Rude, should fire your own cannon first.

As for "Dwarf," that would seem most apt in describing *your* spiritual
magnitude. >>

Do you realize you're beginning to sound a little like Leonard Tillman?

Ancona
GRNDPADAVE
2003-10-24 17:06:09 UTC
Permalink
Date: 10/24/2003 11:48 AM Central Daylight Time
<< You, being the Connoisseur of Rude, should fire your own cannon first.
As for "Dwarf," that would seem most apt in describing *your* spiritual
magnitude. >>
Do you realize you're beginning to sound a little like Leonard Tillman?
Ancona
~~~~~~~~~~
Flattery will get you nowhere.

==G/P Dave
Leonard Tillman
2003-10-24 17:24:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ancona21
Do you realize you're beginning to sound a
little like Leonard Tillman?
Ancona
~~~~~~~~~~
Post by Ancona21
Flattery will get you nowhere.
==G/P Dave
Dave, I give you my solemn word that my other post was issued prior to
my having seen the above. Honest!

Best,
LT
"Great minds....etc."
Leonard Tillman
2003-10-24 17:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ancona21
<< You, being the Connoisseur of Rude,
should fire your own cannon first.
As for "Dwarf," that would seem most apt in
describing *your* spiritual
magnitude. >>
Do you realize you're beginning to sound a
little like Leonard Tillman?
Ancona
And do you realize that if you wish to butter Dave up, - you need to be
less obvious about it? Flattery only works *sometimes*.

LT
"Whose cruel idea was it for the word 'lisp' to have a 's' in it?" -- A.
"Nonny" Muss.
susurrus
2003-10-24 18:29:58 UTC
Permalink
KOGPD wrote,
Post by GRNDPADAVE
Sir,
You, being the Connoisseur of Rude, should fire your own cannon first.
What am I, chopped liver?

susurrus
daniel f. tritter
2003-10-24 19:07:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by susurrus
KOGPD wrote,
Post by GRNDPADAVE
Sir,
You, being the Connoisseur of Rude, should fire your own cannon first.
What am I, chopped liver?
susurus
more like 8-day old spam. rotting in the tropical sun.

dft
susurrus
2003-10-24 20:04:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by daniel f. tritter
Post by susurrus
KOGPD wrote,
Post by GRNDPADAVE
Sir,
You, being the Connoisseur of Rude, should fire your own cannon first.
What am I, chopped liver?
susurus
more like 8-day old spam. rotting in the tropical sun.
dft
Ah, just a few more days then until I'll be ready for you to eat me.
susurrus
daniel f. tritter
2003-10-24 20:14:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by susurrus
Post by daniel f. tritter
Post by susurrus
KOGPD wrote,
Post by GRNDPADAVE
Sir,
You, being the Connoisseur of Rude, should fire your own cannon first.
What am I, chopped liver?
susurus
more like 8-day old spam. rotting in the tropical sun.
dft
Ah, just a few more days then until I'll be ready for you to eat me.
susurrus
ah, meeting popular expectations, the ever dependably malodorous
ssssussssssssssurrrrrrussss weighs in with his nomination for most nauseating
thought of the year. as the polls read, his nominations are now running
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-10 [pineiro is always good for at least one repulsive notion to
break up bollman's winning streak].

dft
Leonard Tillman
2003-10-26 17:08:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by daniel f. tritter
Post by susurrus
KOGPD wrote,
Post by GRNDPADAVE
Sir,
You, being the Connoisseur of Rude, should fire your own cannon first.
What am I, chopped liver?
susurus
more like 8-day old spam. rotting in the tropical sun.
'Fraid I must differ, - pointing out that even month-old spam, its
mold a'mouldin' whilst perceptibly rotting in the City Dump beneath a
cloudy sky, is Shirley a far more palatable repast than some mephitic
creature vainly comparing itself to the eternally delicious,
tantalizing, "Geschmak in Ganzen" treat known to us discerning experts
as Chopped Liver*.

LT
(*Whether on "Tam Tams™", Ritz® Crackers, "Pump" or Swirl Rye with
Russian Dressing, - it's Ze Best!)
Post by daniel f. tritter
dft
REG
2003-10-25 03:17:18 UTC
Permalink
I certainly wasn't offended by Ancona's response to my posting; I don't know
why you should be, Dave.
Post by GRNDPADAVE
Date: 10/24/2003 11:25 AM Central Daylight Time
<< WRONG !!! The best line is in Duck Soup >>
Uh, huh. By all means, let's have a thread on favorite lines from the Three
Rude Dwarfs canon.
Ancona
~~~~~~~~~~
Sir,
You, being the Connoisseur of Rude, should fire your own cannon first.
As for "Dwarf," that would seem most apt in describing *your* spiritual
magnitude.
Do oblige us by following your own advice.
Thank you.
==G/P Dave
GRNDPADAVE
2003-10-25 12:08:31 UTC
Permalink
Date: 10/24/2003 10:17 PM Central Daylight Time
I certainly wasn't offended by Ancona's response to my posting; I don't know
why you should be, Dave.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Constantly referring to the Marx Bros. as "dwarfs" I find both rude and
offensive.

I agree that I may have been guilty of "lèse majesté" in that Ancona is our own
royal Gama.

==G/P Dave
Leonard Tillman
2003-10-25 13:30:09 UTC
Permalink
Date: 10/24/2003 10:17 PM Central Daylight
I certainly wasn't offended by Ancona's
response to my posting; I don't know why you
should be, Dave.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Constantly referring to the Marx Bros. as
"dwarfs" I find both rude and offensive.
I agree that I may have been guilty of "l=E8se
majest=E9" in that Ancona is our own royal
Gama.
=3D=3DG/P Dave
The original claimed thusly:

"If you give my your attention, I will tell you what I am!
I'm a genuine philanthropist -- all other kinds are sham.
Each little fault of temper and each social defect

"In my erring fellow creatures, I endeavor to correct.
To all their little weaknesses I open people's eyes;
And little plans to snub the self-sufficient I devise;

"I love my fellow creatures -- I do all the good I can --
Yet everybody says I'm such a disagreeable man!
And I can't think why!

"To compliments inflated I've a withering reply;
And vanity I always to my best to mortify;
A charitable action I can skillfully dissect;
And interested motives I'm delighted to detect;

"I know everybody's income and what everybody earns;
And I carefully compare it with the income-tax returns;
But to benefit humanity however much I plan,
Yet everybody ways I'm such a disagreeable man!
And I can't think why!

"I'm, sure I'm no ascetic; I'm as pleasant as can be;
You'll always find me ready with a crushing repartee,
I've an irritating chuckle, I've a celebrated sneer,

"I've an entertaining snigger, I've a fascinating leer.
To everybody's prejudice I know a thing or two;
I can tell a woman's age in half a minute -- and I do.

"But although I try to make myself as pleasant as I can,
Yet everybody says I am such a disagreeable man!
And I can't think why!

"CHORUS: He can't think why!
------------------------------------

The Lord must love the Gamas of the world, given that He made so many of
them.

LT
"Whose cruel idea was it for the word 'lisp' to have a 's' in it?" -- A.
"Nonny" Muss.
susurrus
2003-10-25 16:07:36 UTC
Permalink
"Leonard Tillman" <***@webtv.net> wrote

<"Whose cruel idea was it for the word 'lisp' to have a 's' in it?"

< -- A. "Nonny" Muss.>

The shelf life for that one has expired.
Leonard Tillman
2003-10-26 09:09:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by susurrus
<"Whose cruel idea was it for the word 'lisp' to have a 's' in it?"
< -- A. "Nonny" Muss.>
The shelf life for that one has expired.
A highly dubious assertion, given that no expiration date was ever
established (for either or both parts of the sig). It's your need to
make said assertion that's kinda ancient by now.

LT
"Whose cruel idea was it for the word 'lisp' to have a 's' in it?" --
A. "Nonny" Muss.
Steve Silverman
2003-10-26 10:20:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by susurrus
The shelf life for that one has expired.
Just that one? Leonard has a veritable warehouse full of bon-mots
(beaux-mots?) that are long past their sell-by date.

Steve Silverman
Leonard Tillman
2003-10-26 15:30:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by susurrus
The shelf life for that one has expired.
Just that one? Leonard has a veritable
warehouse full of bon-mots (beaux-mots?)
that are long past their sell-by date.
Only Twin Twits, such as our SS-boy and the Susu, would claim
non-existent "sell-by dates" and snidely impugn genuine bon mots they
obviously lack the talent to equal.

Their own dank warehouses-full of beaux-mots (faux-mots?) and other
horrendously decayed matter are unaproached, and will forever remain so.
(Protective masks do have their limits, you know.)
Post by susurrus
The SS-boy
Yeah, we know, we know already.

LT
"Whose cruel idea was it for the word 'lisp' to have a 's' in it?" -- A.
"Nonny" Muss.
susurrus
2003-10-26 16:42:28 UTC
Permalink
We were complaining about the tedious repetition, oh droning one.
Post by Leonard Tillman
Post by susurrus
The shelf life for that one has expired.
Just that one? Leonard has a veritable
warehouse full of bon-mots (beaux-mots?)
that are long past their sell-by date.
Only Twin Twits, such as our SS-boy and the Susu, would claim
non-existent "sell-by dates" and snidely impugn genuine bon mots they
obviously lack the talent to equal.
Their own dank warehouses-full of beaux-mots (faux-mots?) and other
horrendously decayed matter are unaproached, and will forever remain so.
(Protective masks do have their limits, you know.)
Post by susurrus
The SS-boy
Yeah, we know, we know already.
LT
"Whose cruel idea was it for the word 'lisp' to have a 's' in it?" -- A.
"Nonny" Muss.
Leonard Tillman
2003-10-26 17:31:53 UTC
Permalink
We were complaining about the tedious >repetition
Ah, but it's your repetitious *complaining* that makes for "tedious
repetition", O, Hackie-Wonder. (Got it, Git?)

LT
"Whose cruel idea was it for the word 'lisp' to have a 's' in it?" -- A.
"Nonny" Muss.

REG
2003-10-25 14:42:51 UTC
Permalink
When did the majeste part happen?
Post by GRNDPADAVE
Date: 10/24/2003 10:17 PM Central Daylight Time
I certainly wasn't offended by Ancona's response to my posting; I don't know
why you should be, Dave.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Constantly referring to the Marx Bros. as "dwarfs" I find both rude and
offensive.
I agree that I may have been guilty of "lèse majesté" in that Ancona is our own
royal Gama.
==G/P Dave
Ancona21
2003-10-25 17:24:05 UTC
Permalink
From: "REG" ***@hotmail.com:

<< I certainly wasn't offended by Ancona's response to my posting; I don't know
why you should be, Dave. >>

It might be owing to the fact that Dave is five-feet two-inches tall.

Ancona
GRNDPADAVE
2003-10-25 18:09:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ancona21
It might be owing to the fact that Dave is five-feet two-inches tall.
Ancona
~~~~~~~~~~
Less than that, Sweetheart.

==G/P Dave
Leonard Tillman
2003-10-23 16:09:29 UTC
Permalink
<< And on what basis would you make that ridiculous statement. The woman
wasn't
entertaining. She was a guest at the party.
Terry Ellsworth >>
Actually, Terry she was very entertaining. A
marvelous raconteuse, you should
have heard her stories about her adventures
in darkest Africa! Best,
Ken
~~~~~~~~~~~
Was she the one who happened to catch an
elephant in her pajamas?
==G/P Dave
Interesting attire, for a bull elephant.
("A Transvestite Elephant At the Opera", - a much more imaginative
book-title than Rudolf Bing chose for his memoirs.)

LT
"Whose cruel idea was it for the word 'lisp' to have a 's' in it?"
Terrymelin
2003-10-23 16:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Commspkmn
Actually, Terry she was very entertaining. A marvelous raconteuse, you should
have heard her stories about her adventures in darkest Africa!
Best,
Ken
Dr. Livingstone, I presume?

Terry Ellsworth
l***@webtv.net
2003-10-25 03:21:51 UTC
Permalink
re the black female guest at the party

Perhaps she was "L'Africaine"?
REG
2003-10-25 03:37:47 UTC
Permalink
Certainly, la token Africaine.
Post by l***@webtv.net
re the black female guest at the party
Perhaps she was "L'Africaine"?
Leonard Tillman
2003-10-25 03:51:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@webtv.net
re the black female guest at the party
Perhaps she was "L'Africaine"?
Best answer yet.

Problem: She wouldn't be allowed to sing Meyerbeer's music at a
(Verdian) party.

LT
"Whose cruel idea was it for the word 'lisp' to have a 's' in it?" -- A.
"Nonny" Muss.
Triffnocheinmal
2003-10-23 00:53:56 UTC
Permalink
***@aol.com wrote:
'Also, there is one prominent and tall black woman in the chorus who is dressed
a bit like Winnie Mandela in full African gear. What is that supposed to be
about?'
----
Ssshh! It was Leontyne!
Parterrebox
2003-10-23 01:52:58 UTC
Permalink
In the Act One party scene there are many people in what would pass for
"black tie formal" in the 19th century but others who seem to be in day dresses
and clothes.

This I took to mean that the group that shows up at Violetta's is a motley
crowd; some of them have been out at an elegant ball, whereas others may have
just been hanging out in a local tavern, and decided to crash the party for the
free food and drink. It should be recalled that this is not a dinner party or
ball but rather a casual late-evening supper, kind of a bohemian open house
where anyone who knows about the party is free to attend, come-as-you-are.
Also, there is one prominent and tall black woman in the chorus who is dressed
a bit like Winnie Mandela in full African gear.

I agree that this chorister takes stage rather too much, but in theory I think
this is again a suggestion of the bohemian -- the woman looks like she might
tell fortunes or cast spells, an exotic who might momentarily pique the
interest of the demimonde.
Terrymelin
2003-10-23 13:19:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Parterrebox
This I took to mean that the group that shows up at Violetta's is a motley
crowd; some of them have been out at an elegant ball, whereas others may have
just been hanging out in a local tavern, and decided to crash the party for the
free food and drink. It should be recalled that this is not a dinner party or
ball but rather a casual late-evening supper, kind of a bohemian open house
where anyone who knows about the party is free to attend, come-as-you-are.
Yes, I guess that makes sense. Hadn't thought of that.
Post by Parterrebox
Post by Terrymelin
Also, there is one prominent and tall black woman in the chorus who is
dressed
a bit like Winnie Mandela in full African gear.
I agree that this chorister takes stage rather too much, but in theory I think
this is again a suggestion of the bohemian -- the woman looks like she might
tell fortunes or cast spells, an exotic who might momentarily pique the
interest of the demimonde.
That could be but I don't believe she would be at such a party -- at least not
in that get-up.

Terry Ellsworth
Parterrebox
2003-10-23 22:04:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terrymelin
That could be but I don't believe she would be at such a party -- at least not
in that get-up.

Maybe if you think of Violetta as having a streak of Auntie Mame in her, a
fascination with the new and unusual.
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