Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?

[vector]

Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?

Just got a copy of her La Luna CD, I'm thinking both, but was
wondering.

I've read reviews where some say, "pop singer with artsy aspirations"
and yet others stating the reverse.

Also noticed many references to her "small voice". Is that a good
thing?


vector (Opera challenged) jones

---
"In religion,
just because it talks like a duck,
doesn't mean it's a duck"

[La Donna Mobile]

To my knowledge, she has never appeared in any opera.

She has, presumably, had some voice training, but so what, that's like
saying someone who's had piano lessons is a concert pianist. I would say
that her 1979 hit (reached No. 6 in the UK Charts) I Lost My Heart To A
Starship Trooper is indisputedly pop (genre: disco).

The track listing on La Luna suggests crossover - Scarborough Fair, I
would classify as Folk, Whiter Shade of Pale is rock (although I dread
to think how she renders this anthemic standard), and Figlio Perduto is
taken from Beethoven's Seventh Symphony (According to my Classical
Chillout Vol 2 it's 'adapted Soltau'). I don't recognise the rest of the
tracks listed, but none of them even appears to be an operatic aria.

Very many singers of pop, rock, folk, gospel, country, jazz etc etc have
trained, or partially trained voices. That doesn't make them opera singers.

Indeed, there are very many singers on the classical circuit, performing
oratorio, masses, lieder, songs etc, a repertoire that many opera
singers do, and they are not opera singers. Nor are people that make
records of opera arias.

To be called an opera singer requires, performing in a fully staged
opera, which lasts typically 2-3 hours (although many are longer and
some are shorter), singing to a sizeable house - New York's Met has a
capacity of over 4,000, London's Albert Hall 5,000-7,000 depending on
configuration, and most opera houses are upwards of about 1,000.

It also requires acting (although some manage to get away without
that...), and, rather importantly, filling that house without the voice
being amplified. Thus, Lesley Garratt is definitely an opera singer,
even though her recent career would suggest otherwise, but Sarah
Brightman, no...

You might enjoy Renee Fleming - By Request
<http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000C3ICO/qid=1120214818/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_11_2/202-7944211-0767050>,
Angela Gheorghiu - Diva
<http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0001E8C0K/qid=1120214872/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_11_7/202-7944211-0767050>
or Anna Netrebko - Sempre Libera
<http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000295TXC/qid=1120214925/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_11_3/202-7944211-0767050>

Post by vector
Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?
Just got a copy of her La Luna CD, I'm thinking both, but was
wondering.
I've read reviews where some say, "pop singer with artsy aspirations"
and yet others stating the reverse.
Also noticed many references to her "small voice". Is that a good
thing?
vector (Opera challenged) jones
---
"In religion,
just because it talks like a duck,
doesn't mean it's a duck"

[w***@comcast.net]

Post by vector
Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?

Slop.

Bill

[dtritter]

Post by vector
Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?
Just got a copy of her La Luna CD, I'm thinking both, but was
wondering.
I've read reviews where some say, "pop singer with artsy aspirations"
and yet others stating the reverse.
Also noticed many references to her "small voice". Is that a good
thing?
vector (Opera challenged) jones
---
"In religion,
just because it talks like a duck,
doesn't mean it's a duck"

dear opera challenged:

brightman, had she not been married to a popular but monumentally
ungifted wannabe composer (once turned down by ernst toch as a
composition student) would be unnoticed. hers is a small voice, but an
ugly one.
"la luna?" i had the misfortune to channel surf and catch this vocal
cipher being announced to be singing an aria by this name ... which,
despite her ghastly si nging, one came to recognize as the song to the
moon ("mesicku...") from rusalka. where she got the notion that this was
an aria in italian was a musicological bad joke. it has been done in the
original czech, occasionally in german and even a bit in english ...
but the music and text are all but unknown in italy.

it isn't reaqlly a question of whether the brightman creature is an
opera singer or a pop singer. she's hardly even a singer, a worthy
partner for the zombie, sr. bocelli (maybe the text for "la luna" was
authored by that voiceless money machine) ...

next question?

[Sagittarius]

Post by dtritter

Post by vector
Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?
Just got a copy of her La Luna CD, I'm thinking both, but was
wondering.
I've read reviews where some say, "pop singer with artsy aspirations"
and yet others stating the reverse.
Also noticed many references to her "small voice". Is that a good
thing?
vector (Opera challenged) jones
---
"In religion,
just because it talks like a duck,
doesn't mean it's a duck"

brightman, had she not been married to a popular but monumentally
ungifted wannabe composer (once turned down by ernst toch as a
composition student) would be unnoticed. hers is a small voice, but an
ugly one.
"la luna?" i had the misfortune to channel surf and catch this vocal
cipher being announced to be singing an aria by this name ... which,
despite her ghastly si nging, one came to recognize as the song to the
moon ("mesicku...") from rusalka. where she got the notion that this was
an aria in italian was a musicological bad joke. it has been done in the
original czech, occasionally in german and even a bit in english ...
but the music and text are all but unknown in italy.
it isn't reaqlly a question of whether the brightman creature is an
opera singer or a pop singer. she's hardly even a singer, a worthy
partner for the zombie, sr. bocelli (maybe the text for "la luna" was
authored by that voiceless money machine) ...
next question?

Dear Vector

Professor Bitter has, for many years, been giving a very popular course in
Opera Basics to people who, like yourself, want to find out more about the
subject. His unfailing patience, good humour and encouraging words continue
to be an inspiration to his students, many of whom have since developed an
affection and, in many cases, a passion for the art form, due, in great part
to the support from their kindly, old professor. A few of his bons mots --
alas, too few -- can be gleaned in this NG. His main subject of expertise,
however, remains Latrines & Their Contents, of which he has made a lifetime
study and on which he lectures and publishes with remarkable regularity. He
is the acknowledged authority in the field and has received a number of
honorary doctorates for his scholarly research.

[Dan Tritter]

Post by Sagittarius

Post by dtritter

Post by vector
Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?
Just got a copy of her La Luna CD, I'm thinking both, but was
wondering.
I've read reviews where some say, "pop singer with artsy aspirations"
and yet others stating the reverse.
Also noticed many references to her "small voice". Is that a good
thing?
vector (Opera challenged) jones
---
"In religion,
just because it talks like a duck,
doesn't mean it's a duck"

brightman, had she not been married to a popular but monumentally
ungifted wannabe composer (once turned down by ernst toch as a
composition student) would be unnoticed. hers is a small voice, but an
ugly one.
"la luna?" i had the misfortune to channel surf and catch this vocal
cipher being announced to be singing an aria by this name ... which,
despite her ghastly si nging, one came to recognize as the song to the
moon ("mesicku...") from rusalka. where she got the notion that this was
an aria in italian was a musicological bad joke. it has been done in the
original czech, occasionally in german and even a bit in english ...
but the music and text are all but unknown in italy.
it isn't reaqlly a question of whether the brightman creature is an
opera singer or a pop singer. she's hardly even a singer, a worthy
partner for the zombie, sr. bocelli (maybe the text for "la luna" was
authored by that voiceless money machine) ...
next question?

Dear Vector
Professor Bitter has, for many years, been giving a very popular course in
Opera Basics to people who, like yourself, want to find out more about the
subject. His unfailing patience, good humour and encouraging words continue
to be an inspiration to his students, many of whom have since developed an
affection and, in many cases, a passion for the art form, due, in great part
to the support from their kindly, old professor. A few of his bons mots --
alas, too few -- can be gleaned in this NG. His main subject of expertise,
however, remains Latrines & Their Contents, of which he has made a lifetime
study and on which he lectures and publishes with remarkable regularity. He
is the acknowledged authority in the field and has received a number of
honorary doctorates for his scholarly research.

this bio from one of the specimens studied in the advanced course. he
was high on the list of subhuman species found in the nation's leading
latrine holes. other specimens were named bollman, ellsworth, slater,
meyer, jag and orturd. all shared the common trait of being discovered
in their native habitat, holding daily heats in the sub-fecal crawl,
with brown medals awarded daily. sag is easing toward a new world record
for brown medals won, even against such stern competition. more on the
six o'clock sports news.

[Leonard Tillman]

Post by vector
Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?
Just got a copy of her La Luna CD, I'm
thinking both,

While she's not technically an "Opera singer", you're not far wrong.

Post by vector
but was wondering.
I've read reviews where some say, "pop singer
with artsy aspirations" and yet others stating
the reverse.

Either description may serve.

Post by vector
Also noticed many references to her "small
voice". Is that a good thing?

Not a big problem, with today's amplification.

I enjoy her singing, always have, and consider her sound, and even her
style, to be an essentially Operetta-type, covering the MT and Pop areas
very well.

Categorizing aside, if you like her, - get her recordings and enjoy
them!

LT

[a***@aol.com]

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by vector
Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?
Just got a copy of her La Luna CD, I'm
thinking both,

While she's not technically an "Opera singer", you're not far wrong.

Post by vector
but was wondering.
I've read reviews where some say, "pop singer
with artsy aspirations" and yet others stating
the reverse.

Either description may serve.

Post by vector
Also noticed many references to her "small
voice". Is that a good thing?

Not a big problem, with today's amplification.
I enjoy her singing, always have, and consider her sound, and even her
style, to be an essentially Operetta-type, covering the MT and Pop areas
very well.
Categorizing aside, if you like her, - get her recordings and enjoy

I think this debate has been mentioned before. I do not whether she
claims to be an opera singer but her folk song recording for EMI (I
think) I found very enjoyable. I would think she probably just
describes herself as a singer or entertainer but I do not know for
certain.

I have done one show with her, quite early on, and she can certainly
sing in tune and she can also sing unaccompanied which is not always so
easy.

I would suggest the OP takes the advice offered - if you like the
artist buy the recordings.

As to "La Luna", Song to the Moon, I have to tell you that there is a
slow rock version as well. There is also a disco version of parts of
Saint-Saens Symphony 3.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

[Leonard Tillman]

Post by vector
Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?
Just got a copy of her La Luna CD, I'm
=A0thinking both,

"While she's not technically an "Opera singer", you're not far wrong. "

Post by vector
but was wondering.
I've read reviews where some say, "pop singer
with artsy aspirations" and yet others stating
the reverse.

"Either description may serve. "

Post by vector
Also noticed many references to her "small
voice". Is that a good thing?

"Not a big problem, with today's amplification.

"I enjoy her singing, always have, and consider her sound, and even her
style, to be an essentially Operetta-type, covering the MT and Pop areas
very well.

"Categorizing aside, if you like her, - get her recordings and enjoy "
-----

Post by vector
I think this debate has been mentioned before.
I do not whether she claims to be an opera
singer

From what I recall of her interviews, she doesn't. She mentions some
classical training, but that's about it.

Post by vector
but her folk song recording for EMI (I think) I
found very enjoyable. I would think she
probably just describes herself as a singer or
entertainer but I do not know for certain.

That sounds about right. There are, of course, several singers of her
approximate genre, who at least "hint" that they're "opera singers" of a
sort. Most all are too light-toned, unless they were to specialize in
leggiero leads, or comprimario roles.

Post by vector
I have done one show with her, quite early on, >and she can certainly

sing in tune and she can

Post by vector
also sing unaccompanied which is not always
so easy.

What did you think, then, of her vocal volume?

Post by vector
I would suggest the OP takes the advice
offered - if you like the artist buy the
recordings.
As to "La Luna", Song to the Moon, I have to
tell you that there is a slow rock version as
well.

That's another one I'd be interested in hearing.
Were there a version of "quicker" tempo, that might spoil it altogether,
bringing about the wrong "feel".

Post by vector
There is also a disco version of parts of
Saint-Saens Symphony 3.

I wonder if this would be similar to the video made by Natalia Makarova,
in which she and a French male dancer are accompanied by the slow
movement. Its title, which I don't recall at the moment, gives no
reference to its symphonic source.

Post by vector
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

Best,

LT

[a***@aol.com]

It was a Czech group who did a slow-rock Rusalka, the name of which
eludes me at the moment but may return but on an album called Moving On
or Moved On or something similar. It worked for them. There was some
nifty cymbal work!

The S-S I encountered in a supermarket. From memory, mostly Movement I
with a back beat. The same tape also contained the disco version of
Mozart Symphony 40 Movement I which, of course, does rather lay itself
open to this sort of thing! I seem to remember that poor old
Charles-Camille was somewhat heavily cut.

As to Ms Brightman, she was miked. Yes, I suppose it is a small voice
but she has a rather attractive timbre (or so I think) and she did her
stuff well and the audience appeared to enjoy it. What more can you
say? I do not think her audience is likely to sit there discussing the
technical aspects: indeed, I am not even sure that the majority of
opera goers discuss the technical aspects but I could well be wrong.
She did a good show which, after all, is all any of us can hope for.

One of her encores was Scarborough Fair, unaccompanied, which I think
harder than it looks. She launched into it with confidence without
anyone giving her an A, anyway. And, amid all the wonderful
opera-classical stuff, what a very "simple" and very beautiful piece
that is.

I sometimes think that one of my favourite composers is Mr Traditional.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

[Leonard Tillman]

Post by a***@aol.com
It was a Czech group who did a slow-rock
Rusalka, the name of which eludes me at the
moment but may return but on an album
called Moving On or Moved On or something
similar. It worked for them. There was some
nifty cymbal work!

This should be an album similar adaptations of other classic-miniatures?

Post by a***@aol.com
The S-S I encountered in a supermarket.
From memory, mostly Movement I with a
back beat. The same tape also contained the
disco version of Mozart Symphony 40
Movement I which, of course, does rather lay
itself open to this sort of thing! I seem to
remember that poor old Charles-Camille was
somewhat heavily cut.

That's to be expected, since much of the public seems to like "digest"
form, regarding classics.

Post by a***@aol.com
As to Ms Brightman, she was miked. Yes, I
suppose it is a small voice but she has a
rather attractive timbre (or so I think)

So do I, - it's part vocal, part personality/charisma.

Post by a***@aol.com
and she did her stuff well and the audience
appeared to enjoy it. What more can you
say? I do not think her audience is likely to sit
indeed, I am not even sure that the majority of
opera goers discuss the technical aspects but
I could well be wrong.

The ones who do so, in either audience, tend to be the
"faux-cognoscenti", by and large.

Post by a***@aol.com
She did a good show which, after all, is all any
of us can hope for.
One of her encores was Scarborough Fair,
unaccompanied, which I think harder than it
looks. She launched into it with confidence
without anyone giving her an A, anyway. And,
amid all the wonderful opera-classical stuff,
what a very "simple" and very beautiful piece
that is.

Easily one of the best, and not done often enough by the legit voices.

As to its singing, there are some relatively long phrases, quickly
descending to the lower register at some moments, but not terribly
difficult overall.

Post by a***@aol.com
I sometimes think that one of my favourite
composers is Mr Traditional.

One of that estimable "gent's" hits is the fine Spanish tune called
"Romanza", that I heard just recently in the subway(!), en route to
Manhattan. A young guitarist did an excellent job of it and several
other selections.

Post by a***@aol.com
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

LT

[LaDiva]

As I recall she started her career as a not-very-good pop singer ("I lost my
heart to a starship trooper"). Her pretentions towards more serious singing
were either suggested by or encouraged by her then-husband - but since this
is the man who considered Michael Crawford a suitable candidate to "sing"
his Phantom role, we should not set too much store by his judgement.

Personally, I'm not a fan of her kind of less-than-subtle vibrato. Mind
you, over here we have to endure La Brightman, La Garrett and La Church.
Thank God for Bryn Terfel!

Regards
LaDiva

[Dan Tritter]

Post by LaDiva
As I recall she started her career as a not-very-good pop singer ("I lost my
heart to a starship trooper"). Her pretentions towards more serious singing
were either suggested by or encouraged by her then-husband - but since this
is the man who considered Michael Crawford a suitable candidate to "sing"
his Phantom role, we should not set too much store by his judgement.
Personally, I'm not a fan of her kind of less-than-subtle vibrato. Mind
you, over here we have to endure La Brightman, La Garrett and La Church.
Thank God for Bryn Terfel!
Regards
LaDiva

don't you also have a turkey named watson?
and don't you have the composer of "aida?"

don't tell me there'll always be an england.

[Leonard Tillman]

Post by LaDiva
Personally, I'm not a fan of her kind of
less-than-subtle vibrato. Mind you, over here
we have to endure La Brightman, La Garrett
and La Church.

I wouldn't put CC in the same category/level as the other two.

Post by LaDiva
Thank God for Bryn Terfel!

Agreed, there!

LT

[LaDiva]

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by LaDiva
Personally, I'm not a fan of her kind of
less-than-subtle vibrato. Mind you, over here
we have to endure La Brightman, La Garrett
and La Church.

I wouldn't put CC in the same category/level as the other two.

Sadly, though, I suspect she does.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by LaDiva
Thank God for Bryn Terfel!

Agreed, there!
LT

[LaDiva]

Post by Dan Tritter

Post by LaDiva
As I recall she started her career as a not-very-good pop singer ("I lost
my heart to a starship trooper"). Her pretentions towards more serious
singing were either suggested by or encouraged by her then-husband - but
since this is the man who considered Michael Crawford a suitable
candidate to "sing" his Phantom role, we should not set too much store by
his judgement.
Personally, I'm not a fan of her kind of less-than-subtle vibrato. Mind
you, over here we have to endure La Brightman, La Garrett and La Church.
Thank God for Bryn Terfel!
Regards
LaDiva

don't you also have a turkey named watson?
and don't you have the composer of "aida?"
don't tell me there'll always be an england.

Yes, God help us. I don't know if you have heard his rendering of the theme
for Star Trek Enterprise (apologies for lowering the tone). He sounds just
like Rod Stewart. He's like a vocal Xerox machine. A talent of sorts, but
perhaps not high art!

Regards LaDiva

[a***@aol.com]

Post by LaDiva
As I recall she started her career as a not-very-good pop singer ("I lost my
heart to a starship trooper"). Her pretentions towards more serious singing
were either suggested by or encouraged by her then-husband - but since this
is the man who considered Michael Crawford a suitable candidate to "sing"
his Phantom role, we should not set too much store by his judgement.
Personally, I'm not a fan of her kind of less-than-subtle vibrato. Mind
you, over here we have to endure La Brightman, La Garrett and La Church.
Thank God for Bryn Terfel!
Regards
LaDiva

I digress, as always, but the girl comes with complex drum patterns
notated asa TAB (as they do) and she certainly gave me something to
think about and so I had a very enjoyable time. It is certainly a lot
more interesting to play than anything in Traviata (and you do not have
to rewrite the part, either).

Perhaps she can be "enjoyed" on different levels?

Her unaccompanied performance of "The Trees They Grow So High" was
magical, although she had a mike but of course you still have to sing
it. Regrettably, it does not come from an opera (I wish it did).

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

[jrw]

Never Opera, and hardly Pop.

[diana]

Post by jrw
Never Opera, and hardly Pop.

well, Again I find myself in the minority. I enjoy her tremendously.
But then, I also like El Divo and Amici Forever.
what does that say?

[a***@aol.com]

Post by diana

Post by jrw
Never Opera, and hardly Pop.

well, Again I find myself in the minority. I enjoy her tremendously.
But then, I also like El Divo and Amici Forever.
what does that say?

It says you like what you hear?

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

[Leonard Tillman]

cwa.googlegroups.com...
Never Opera, and hardly Pop.
well, Again I find myself in the minority. I enjoy
her tremendously. But then, I also like El Divo
and Amici Forever. what does that say?

IMO, it says you've excellent taste in singers!

LT

[La Donna Mobile]

Post by diana

Post by jrw
Never Opera, and hardly Pop.

well, Again I find myself in the minority. I enjoy her tremendously.
But then, I also like El Divo and Amici Forever.
what does that say?

That perhaps you don't know the meaning of the term 'opera'...?

What you like is your business, and no one can tell you you're wrong to
like whatever you like, but the simple basic fact is that Sarah
Brightman, El Divo and Amici Forever are no more Opera than Jamie
Oliver, Delia Smith, and Keith Floyd are Formula 1 Racing Drivers. To
suggest otherwise says nothing about cookery or Formula 1, or about the
relative merits of Jamie, Delia and Keith, or Schumacher, Alonso and
Fisichella.

You might like Rolando Villazon - Italian Opera Arias
<http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00018TIOA/qid=1120253850/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_10_2/202-7944211-0767050>,
Juan Diego Florez - Una furtiva lagrima
<http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008CLJK/qid=1120253870/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_11_1/202-7944211-0767050>,
or Marcelo Alvarez - The Tenor's Passion
<http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00064AEDS/qid=1120253925/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_8_5/202-7944211-0767050>

[a***@aol.com]

All that, of course, but at the end of the day it is surely just a show
whether Rusalka, South Pacific, West Side Story, Daughter of the
Regiment, Iolanthe, Traviata, Candide, Cheremoushka, Faust, Rheingold,
Carmen, Porgy and Bess, Merry Widow, Lady Macbeth of Mtensk, War and
Peace, The Carmelites, Die Vampyr, Kate and the Devil among others.

Is it not just a show or do you know of a higher art form than a show?
It's all a show to me. You?

Do they go home happy? If they do, it was a good show.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

[doomella]

Popera.

[jrw]

She is not an Opera singer, but if you enjoy her music, thats fine, and
thats all that counts.

When I say hardly Pop, she rarely if ever gets into the charts.

[Robert Deutsch]

By posting in a newsgroup dominated by people who see themselves as
guardians of everythings that's sacred about opera and operatic
singing, you have invited scorn to be heaped upon your head--and I see
that's pretty well what you got.

The answer I would give is that Sarah Brightman is not an opera
singer, in that she does not make her living by singing in operas in
opera houses. But she's more than a pop singer, in that she has
studied classical singing, and she has the range (perhaps not the
power, although it's hard to say without having heard her live,
unamplified) and the technique to sing some opera arias and other
classical pieces in a way that many listeners find attractive.
Others--those who spend much of their time posting messages on the
internet--find her singing to be a travesty of what they view as REAL
operatic singing. Worst of all, Brightman is successful, making tons
of money by her singing, which is seen as something akin to a crime
against nature. To a lesser extent, actual opera singers who have the
gall to be highly successful tend to get the same sort of treatment by
this crowd.

Bob

[dtritter]

Post by Robert Deutsch
By posting in a newsgroup dominated by people who see themselves as
guardians of everythings that's sacred about opera and operatic
singing, you have invited scorn to be heaped upon your head--and I see
that's pretty well what you got.
The answer I would give is that Sarah Brightman is not an opera
singer, in that she does not make her living by singing in operas in
opera houses. But she's more than a pop singer, in that she has
studied classical singing, and she has the range (perhaps not the
power, although it's hard to say without having heard her live,
unamplified) and the technique to sing some opera arias and other
classical pieces in a way that many listeners find attractive.
Others--those who spend much of their time posting messages on the
internet--find her singing to be a travesty of what they view as REAL
operatic singing. Worst of all, Brightman is successful, making tons
of money by her singing, which is seen as something akin to a crime
against nature. To a lesser extent, actual opera singers who have the
gall to be highly successful tend to get the same sort of treatment by
this crowd.
Bob

you left out one factor:
brightman is an untalented perform who bills herself as an opera singer.
she has an ugly voice and no notion of what constitutes operatic
singing. it's that which some here resent, just like the apocryphal
painting of a mustache on mona lisa.
wayne newton is highly successful too. he at least does not try to bawl
operatic material or bill himself as an opera singer. he at least does
not pretend to be what he never was

[Stephen Jay-Taylor]

"like the apocryphal painting of a mustache on mona lisa." dft

Not apocryphal at all. It is by Marcel Duchamp, dates from 1919 and is
called "L.H.O.O.Q" ( which in French pronunciation of the alphabet sounds
like "elle a chaud au cul", meaning "She's got a hot fanny".)

SJT, art historical services to the rmo fraternity. Reasonable rates.

[REG]

Group rates, certainly.

REG, who suspects the SJT has apocrhyphal of posies.

Post by Stephen Jay-Taylor
"like the apocryphal painting of a mustache on mona lisa." dft
Not apocryphal at all. It is by Marcel Duchamp, dates from 1919 and is
called "L.H.O.O.Q" ( which in French pronunciation of the alphabet sounds
like "elle a chaud au cul", meaning "She's got a hot fanny".)
SJT, art historical services to the rmo fraternity. Reasonable rates.

[Robert Deutsch]

Post by dtritter

Post by Robert Deutsch
By posting in a newsgroup dominated by people who see themselves as
guardians of everythings that's sacred about opera and operatic
singing, you have invited scorn to be heaped upon your head--and I see
that's pretty well what you got.
The answer I would give is that Sarah Brightman is not an opera
singer, in that she does not make her living by singing in operas in
opera houses. But she's more than a pop singer, in that she has
studied classical singing, and she has the range (perhaps not the
power, although it's hard to say without having heard her live,
unamplified) and the technique to sing some opera arias and other
classical pieces in a way that many listeners find attractive.
Others--those who spend much of their time posting messages on the
internet--find her singing to be a travesty of what they view as REAL
operatic singing. Worst of all, Brightman is successful, making tons
of money by her singing, which is seen as something akin to a crime
against nature. To a lesser extent, actual opera singers who have the
gall to be highly successful tend to get the same sort of treatment by
this crowd.
Bob

brightman is an untalented perform who bills herself as an opera singer.
she has an ugly voice and no notion of what constitutes operatic
singing. it's that which some here resent, just like the apocryphal
painting of a mustache on mona lisa.
wayne newton is highly successful too. he at least does not try to bawl
operatic material or bill himself as an opera singer. he at least does
not pretend to be what he never was

Thank you for confirming all the points I made in my posting! BTW, I
had a look at http://www.sarah-brightman.com/flash.html, and I could
find no reference to her billling herself as an opera singer. You
are, of course, entitled to consider Brightman as untalented and
having an ugly voice, but it seems to me that her numerous
gold/platinum records, awards, and sold-out performances indicate that
many people disagree.

[dtritter]

Post by Robert Deutsch

Post by dtritter

Post by Robert Deutsch
By posting in a newsgroup dominated by people who see themselves as
guardians of everythings that's sacred about opera and operatic
singing, you have invited scorn to be heaped upon your head--and I see
that's pretty well what you got.
The answer I would give is that Sarah Brightman is not an opera
singer, in that she does not make her living by singing in operas in
opera houses. But she's more than a pop singer, in that she has
studied classical singing, and she has the range (perhaps not the
power, although it's hard to say without having heard her live,
unamplified) and the technique to sing some opera arias and other
classical pieces in a way that many listeners find attractive.
Others--those who spend much of their time posting messages on the
internet--find her singing to be a travesty of what they view as REAL
operatic singing. Worst of all, Brightman is successful, making tons
of money by her singing, which is seen as something akin to a crime
against nature. To a lesser extent, actual opera singers who have the
gall to be highly successful tend to get the same sort of treatment by
this crowd.
Bob

brightman is an untalented perform who bills herself as an opera singer.
she has an ugly voice and no notion of what constitutes operatic
singing. it's that which some here resent, just like the apocryphal
painting of a mustache on mona lisa.
wayne newton is highly successful too. he at least does not try to bawl
operatic material or bill himself as an opera singer. he at least does
not pretend to be what he never was

Thank you for confirming all the points I made in my posting! BTW, I
had a look at http://www.sarah-brightman.com/flash.html, and I could
find no reference to her billling herself as an opera singer. You
are, of course, entitled to consider Brightman as untalented and
having an ugly voice, but it seems to me that her numerous
gold/platinum records, awards, and sold-out performances indicate that
many people disagree.

see my post sabove on waqyne newton...or andre bocelli, or charlotte
church, or any other "singers " pushed by hype and record companies. if
that's your measure of talent, try another newsgroup. or urge her
manager to try to get her hired by any opera company anywhere.

[Handelmaniac]

Sarah Brightman
Sarah Brightman,
You're a bore,
You're a bore

CH

[a***@aol.com]

Post by vector
Sarah Brightman
Sarah Brightman,
You're a bore,
You're a bore
CH

I don't know. I am just a musician and I am beginning to think I have
very little place on this group.
Many of you insult artists all the time but you can't actually go out
there and do it for a living can you?

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

[Stephen Jay-Taylor]

I can't build a house, glaze a window, or carpenter a table, and I don't
imagine you can either. But I bet you've very strong opinions as to whether
your house, or your windows, or your furniture are properly made or not. No
difference with professionals of ANY discipline. The consumers who pay for
things to be done don't HAVE to be able to do it themselves : that's why
they pay others, who are supposedly more expert, to do it for them, though
from my side of the footlights I frequently wonder at the level of expertise
on offer. There are crap workmen in every profession, yours included, and
the mentality that thinks they're above criticism on the sentimental and
spurious ground that, bad as they are, they're still better than the mere
punters they serve who can't do it at all, is in dire need of an
unsubsidised, free-market economy reality-check.

Other people do other things for a living, to earn the money to pay to keep
you in employment by turning up to your performances. If we don't come - and
one day we may not - you and all those who imagine they're owed a
criticism-proof living will simply have to pack up and starve. Or busk.
Musicians, artists , the whole rag-bag "creative" community is fond of
thinking itself both apart from and way above the dreary, uninformed rabble
who - ugh! shudder, horror of horrors - constitute its audience ( and,
ultimately, its paymasters.) It isn't. And if you imagine that I'm unduly
harsh on what I perceive as incompetence in this sphere, you should hear and
see what I've had to say to politicians, plumbers and dentists, without,
please note, myself being able to run economies, fix pipes or drill teeth.
That's their job : that's yours. And we, your "consumers", are perfectly
entitled to express our opinions about your variously successful or
unsuccessful discharges thereof without being confronted by the last refuge
of the cop-out "But you can't do it !" So what ? SO WHAT? Half the time,
neither can "they".

SJT, who - on topic - thinks that in another time, La Brightman would have
been a sort of Vera Lynn figure. We're just not there any more.

[dtritter]

Post by Stephen Jay-Taylor
I can't build a house, glaze a window, or carpenter a table, and I don't
imagine you can either. But I bet you've very strong opinions as to whether
your house, or your windows, or your furniture are properly made or not. No
difference with professionals of ANY discipline. The consumers who pay for
things to be done don't HAVE to be able to do it themselves : that's why
they pay others, who are supposedly more expert, to do it for them, though
from my side of the footlights I frequently wonder at the level of expertise
on offer. There are crap workmen in every profession, yours included, and
the mentality that thinks they're above criticism on the sentimental and
spurious ground that, bad as they are, they're still better than the mere
punters they serve who can't do it at all, is in dire need of an
unsubsidised, free-market economy reality-check.
Other people do other things for a living, to earn the money to pay to keep
you in employment by turning up to your performances. If we don't come - and
one day we may not - you and all those who imagine they're owed a
criticism-proof living will simply have to pack up and starve. Or busk.
Musicians, artists , the whole rag-bag "creative" community is fond of
thinking itself both apart from and way above the dreary, uninformed rabble
who - ugh! shudder, horror of horrors - constitute its audience ( and,
ultimately, its paymasters.) It isn't. And if you imagine that I'm unduly
harsh on what I perceive as incompetence in this sphere, you should hear and
see what I've had to say to politicians, plumbers and dentists, without,
please note, myself being able to run economies, fix pipes or drill teeth.
That's their job : that's yours. And we, your "consumers", are perfectly
entitled to express our opinions about your variously successful or
unsuccessful discharges thereof without being confronted by the last refuge
of the cop-out "But you can't do it !" So what ? SO WHAT? Half the time,
neither can "they".
SJT, who - on topic - thinks that in another time, La Brightman would have
been a sort of Vera Lynn figure. We're just not there any more.

this is one of the most articulate, splendid responses seen on rmo in
the last decade.
[until you were rash enough to mention the brightman travesty in the
same breath as vera lynn. you ought to be arrested for thast one.]

[Stephen Jay-Taylor]

"you ought to be arrested for that one." dft

Well if I am, I fully expect you to get me out with minimum bail conditions
and to work pro bono. If all else fails and your skills desert you ( as if
!! ) kindly fetch a sharp file in a cake. Thank you.

SJT, awaiting Armageddon ( but then, aren't we all ? )

[REG]

I don't know if this is what Alan was really referring to, Stephen. He was
responding to the fact that performers are routinely insulted on this
group, and obviously in other situations, not that people were critical of
what performers do.

The place where I think your analogy breaks down most seriously is that a
performance is entirely different than building a house or creating
something that is independent of the creator. Occasionally, but not
frequently, we may take "personally" whether a table has been well-designed
or a window will put into its frame, but we don't for the most part. In
performance, there's a tendency, particularly on this group, but more so
with people who don't perform themselves, to take some "failure" of
accomplishment or of taste personally. It's not criticism, it's some variant
of lese-majeste, and too often the implication is that if the writer deigned
to do so, he or she could do as good a job or better.

I don't see how you avoid seeing that in terms of Alan's point. As long as
you are bringing up the free market element, one of the unfortunately parts
of that analysis is that for most performers, it's not a reasonable
free-market deal to perform anyway. A mere handful ever get any kind of
reasonable compensation - and certainly, good performances (and better)
aren't related to the size of the paycheck - and for someone to "want" to
learn to be a performer is rarely a going proposition anyway. If you really
want to believe, and have others believe in a free-market system here, then
you should be actively discouraging those who go to conservatory or other
training from doing so...encourage them to be glaziers or whatever else.
The "economic" system for artists really only works on the basis that
artists don't think of it as an economic system, and we, the
culture-vulture part of society, profit from that. We get a "free ride" in
an economic sense from those decisions made by others not to use their
common "free market" economic sense.

I also don't get your point on "incompetence". Alan hasn't said anything
defending incompetent performers, unless you want to show me something I am
not aware of. Incompetence, in fact, is often rewarded economically in a
"free market" system for artists, and both of us (and Alan) could think of
performers whom we'd characterize that way. I believe his name is Bonynge.
That's one reason your whole free market analogy and the notion of
"incompetence" really doesn't apply. It's not about criticizing
incompetence. It's about criticizing 1) taste and 2) inevitable limitations
of physical ability and mental ability that limit performances and
performers from being what they could be if they were only "us". Alan's
whole point on Brightman, I think, aside from the fact that he enjoys her
more than you (and considerably more than I - I think it sacrilege to put
her and Vera Lynn in the same sentence), that she knows her business...she's
a good musician, well-trained, and disciplined in her rehearsal (something
glaziers don't have to deal with) and performance.

Post by Stephen Jay-Taylor
I can't build a house, glaze a window, or carpenter a table, and I don't
imagine you can either. But I bet you've very strong opinions as to whether
your house, or your windows, or your furniture are properly made or not. No
difference with professionals of ANY discipline. The consumers who pay for
things to be done don't HAVE to be able to do it themselves : that's why
they pay others, who are supposedly more expert, to do it for them, though
from my side of the footlights I frequently wonder at the level of expertise
on offer. There are crap workmen in every profession, yours included, and
the mentality that thinks they're above criticism on the sentimental and
spurious ground that, bad as they are, they're still better than the mere
punters they serve who can't do it at all, is in dire need of an
unsubsidised, free-market economy reality-check.
Other people do other things for a living, to earn the money to pay to keep
you in employment by turning up to your performances. If we don't come - and
one day we may not - you and all those who imagine they're owed a
criticism-proof living will simply have to pack up and starve. Or busk.
Musicians, artists , the whole rag-bag "creative" community is fond of
thinking itself both apart from and way above the dreary, uninformed rabble
who - ugh! shudder, horror of horrors - constitute its audience ( and,
ultimately, its paymasters.) It isn't. And if you imagine that I'm unduly
harsh on what I perceive as incompetence in this sphere, you should hear and
see what I've had to say to politicians, plumbers and dentists, without,
please note, myself being able to run economies, fix pipes or drill teeth.
That's their job : that's yours. And we, your "consumers", are perfectly
entitled to express our opinions about your variously successful or
unsuccessful discharges thereof without being confronted by the last refuge
of the cop-out "But you can't do it !" So what ? SO WHAT? Half the time,
neither can "they".
SJT, who - on topic - thinks that in another time, La Brightman would have
been a sort of Vera Lynn figure. We're just not there any more.

[a***@aol.com]

You appear to miss the point that most of you are not criticising Ms
Brightman/Church/Bocelli et al on any sort of technical grounds.
People on this group mostly appear to take them apart because they do
not do repertoire that appeals to them and thus become fair game for
the snobbish approach which is set to wreck opera and classical music
long before incompetent musicians do.

The biggest threat to "serious" music is, I believe, elitism and from
time to time on here I see that alive and well.

If the performers happen to be successful in terms of public response,
the worse for them I think. In the operatic field, you all laud
artists who (in a technical sense) are not known for their musical
competence. Perhaps you just like the noise they make? Perhaps those
who buy the CDs of Ms Brightman et al feel the same?
Should there be special schools set up to educate people out of this?
That they must only feel that way if it is the "right" sort of music.
If you do feel like that now is the time to go for it as I think we may
be in a political climate that would be helpful.

You go to an opera. I go to a show: I know you'd like it to be more
but that's all it is, I think. It does not matter to me personally
whether I am playing the notes for Ms Brightman or Sir Charles
Mackerras. My concern is only with playing the notes: what the person
who wrote the notes does with them or seeks to do with them is entirely
a matter for them and something I have little control over, other than
"expression" sometimes.

As to houses etc, I cannot do any of that. My questions would be: is
it fit for it's purpose and does it stay up? There may also be a
slight difference in that all musical performances are recreated every
time anew and there is never a finished product.

When Ms Brightman et al turn up in an opera house to peddle their wares
then I would think the criticism "open house". But it is hardly like
for like at the moment is it? Or is there something else at work
here?

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

[Stephen Jay-Taylor]

I'm coming back to this topic, partly because I think the logistics of my
original analogy do hold true, and partly because other assertions have been
made subsequently with which I profoundly disagree. But I've got a
post-pride dinner engagement, and the very real threat of being dragged off
to "The War of the Worlds" afterwards, so don't hold your breaths. Watch
this space ( or not, as it pleases you.)

SJT, victim of society

[REG]

I love the idea of "post-pride". Does that refer to pride in a post, however
it is denominated in millimeters,or post-pride in a post-modern sense?

REG pre and post prideful

Post by Stephen Jay-Taylor
I'm coming back to this topic, partly because I think the logistics of my
original analogy do hold true, and partly because other assertions have been
made subsequently with which I profoundly disagree. But I've got a
post-pride dinner engagement, and the very real threat of being dragged off
to "The War of the Worlds" afterwards, so don't hold your breaths. Watch
this space ( or not, as it pleases you.)
SJT, victim of society

[La Donna Mobile]

Post by Stephen Jay-Taylor
I'm coming back to this topic, partly because I think the logistics of my
original analogy do hold true, and partly because other assertions have been
made subsequently with which I profoundly disagree.

I certainly agree with your analogy about politics. To me, it would be
unthinkable if people were not allowed to talk the talk until they'd
walked the walk. What is the walk, anyway? Is sitting in a Town Hall
evening after evening scrutinising officers' reports necessarily any
more informative than having to deal with the humdrum problems and
crises caused by and solvable by the apparatus of government?

I also believe that I am a consumer of music. I spend quite a lot of my
disposable income on music, and I believe I have a right to express an
opinion. The extent to which my opinion is valid is, of course, a matter
of debate, but I have an absolute right to say "I like, I don't like"
and I have a right to say that I am formed a view that a piece of music
or a performer is better/less good than either my expectations or a
comparator. I would apply the same argument to literature, film,
restaurants, as well as to supermarkets, airlines etc.

I think there is a good reason why people like Sarah Brightman comes in
for a lot of valid criticism on rmo. The title of this group suggests it
is primarily about opera, although threads often drift off into
discussions of other types of music, which, in context, are not
irrelevant. I suspect that my non-opera/classical tastes are really
quite different from most other members, and it would be pointless, and
rude, to impose my tastes onto other group members, especially those of
a different age, or background, or culture, or life-experience to me.
But there's a very strange phenomenon that I think is unique to opera.
It may not be - probably isn't - the artists' fault, but that of the
marketing men.

There is this belief amongst certain sections of society that 'opera' is
a style of singing which is 'better' than other genres of music. Not
necessarily 'better' as in they like it or can find objective reasons
why. But this 'style' opera is, apparently, what 'good' singers ought to
be aspiring to, regardless of the genre of music that they favour.

I suppose I find it very frustrating because I sense that there is a
whole group of people who want music different from what is pumped out
constantly by pop radio, and they sense in Sarah Brightman, Josh Groban
etc etc something 'different'. Lacking the vocab, they lodge a thought
that it is vaguely opera-like - well, it certainly isn't rock'n'roll or
rap, or whatever. So they buy a Sarah Brightman album and find it not
unpleasant - they've done grinding guitars or over-produced pretty boys,
and this is different, it's novel, it's refreshing. I am not suggesting
that this is necessarily the fault of said artists and others, although
they bank the royalty cheques, but, there again, so would I, I have
bills to pay. What is frustrating is that A&R men, marketing men and TV
Executives sense that there is a market out there to be exploited in
promoting this 'different' thing, and there's no shortage of personable,
presentable singers with half decent voices happy to bank the royalties
cheque. In my idealistic, parallel non-existent world, they would be
saying 'hey there's a whole market of people out there who want
something other than (or additional to) what gets played on pop radio.
Let's do our homework and find some exceptionally talented
singers...oh, goodness, we have a few on our books. Let's get onto TV
Chatshow GHQ and get them to get that lovely Mr Villazon or that babe Ms
Netrebko on the TV, or let's ring up Woman magazine and say we have this
talented, youngish (oh, and rather attractive) Peruvian tenor with a
record to sell. They won't do it.

Reportedly, Juan Diego Florez sang at the Berlin Live 8, but I saw no
signs of this being shown on the big screens in Hyde Park, although it
might have been before I arrived. Nor has he been shown on the
(admittedly small) amount of TV coverage I have so far caught up with,
which I think is a shame

Post by Stephen Jay-Taylor
But I've got a
post-pride dinner engagement,

Were we on Park Lane at the same time yesterday, I wonder...?

Post by Stephen Jay-Taylor
and the very real threat of being dragged off
to "The War of the Worlds" afterwards, so don't hold your breaths. Watch
this space ( or not, as it pleases you.)
SJT, victim of society

[a***@aol.com]

Like you, I have many interests outside the classical field. Indeed as
I write this I am listening to Freyda and Acoustic Atta Tude (Potter's
Wheel and Hey Man in particular) but sadly it might equally have been
Victor Silvester, The Nits, June Tabor, Ashley Hutchings, The Shadows
(yes, I know), Zakir Hussain tabla or Ali Akbar Khan, sarod, the
Kiltimar Ceili Band, Johnny Cash live at San Quentin (a moving
recording that, I think), Ella Fitzgerald, Joan Baez (ageist thing,
possibly),. The Best of Mantovani et al (I have left out lots of jazz
and no end of ethnic folk, particulary that involving the Cimbalom)

What do they have in common? For me, they are all close to the top of
the tree in the musical forest they inhabit.

Ms Brightman's unaccompanied performance of "The Trees They Grow So
High" was wonderful, probably aided by the cadences of a wonderful
melody (and a microphone, admittedly). The house stood still and then
went beserk:):)

Of course I understand that this is not "proper" music but I do believe
that people who compartmentalise music lose a very great deal by doing
so and I will continue to fight my (our?) corner.

Potter's Wheel wprds

The world is fast becoming younger
The news is all they've ever known
Theyve seen the wars, the hurt, the hunger
How will they choose when they are grown

What do you tell forevers children
When its their turn to hurt and heal
Whatever spins a grim tornedo
Can also turn a potters wheel

Take a little clay
Put it on a wheel
Get a little hint
How God must feel

Give a little turn
Listen to a spin
Make it into the shape
You want it in

Tell with your life the bloody story
Teach to their dreams not burning steel
Its not in bombs where lies the glory
But in what's shattered on the field

The potters wheel takes love and caring
Skill and patience fast and slow
The works it makes are easily broken
Once they survive the potters throw

Take a little clay
Put it on a wheel
Get a little hint
How God must feel

Give a little turn
Listen to a spin
Make it into the shape
You want it in

Some day some children will be digging
In some long forgotten ground
And they'll find our civilisation
Or whats left of it to be found

Theyll find the weapons of destruction
But buried deeper in the hole
Theyll find a message and a promise
In the sand, the potters bowl

Take a little clay
Put it on a wheel
Get a little hint
How God must feel

Give a little turn
Listen to a spin
Make it into the shape
You want it in

Earth and fire and wind conspire
With human hands, and love, and fire




Words and Music by Bill Danoff. Who he?

Never wrote an opera.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

[La Donna Mobile]

Post by Stephen Jay-Taylor
SJT, who - on topic - thinks that in another time, La Brightman would have
been a sort of Vera Lynn figure. We're just not there any more.

That would be Robbie Williams you'll be looking for. That man got me bouncing! Oh, the shame of it! Even worse, I found that I enjoyed it...!

[Handelmaniac]

but it seems to me that her numerous
gold/platinum records, awards, and sold-out performances indicate that
many people disagree.

Reply
Since when is THAT a criteria.....Look at the "famous rappers"..CH

[a***@aol.com]

Post by Robert Deutsch
but it seems to me that her numerous
gold/platinum records, awards, and sold-out performances indicate that
many people disagree.
Reply
Since when is THAT a criteria.....Look at the "famous rappers"..CH

Please think about it. It simply means that people who like rap think
that an artist who provides rap for them is good at what they do.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

[Leonard Tillman]

Post by Robert Deutsch
but it seems to me that her numerous
gold/platinum records, awards, and sold-out
performances indicate that many people
disagree.
Reply
Since when is THAT a criteria.....Look at the
"famous rappers"..CH
Please think about it. It simply means that
people who like rap think that an artist who
provides rap for them is good at what they do.

And for their tastes, as formed by their perspective and experiences,
the artist is, indeed, good, or _great_.


LT

[a***@hotmail.com]

Haaaaa, yeah. Funny.
She's no more operatic singer than is Andre Boccelli and Charlotte
Church.
They're commerical, as commercial as Yanni is a "composer" and
"musician."
How about the John Tesh School of melodic drivel.

[a***@hotmail.com]

Haaaaa, yeah. Funny.
She's no more operatic singer than is Andre Boccelli and Charlotte
Church.
They're commerical, as commercial as Yanni is a "composer" and
"musician."
How about the John Tesh School of melodic drivel.

[E Varden]

Post by vector
Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?
Just got a copy of her La Luna CD, I'm thinking both, but was
wondering.
I've read reviews where some say, "pop singer with artsy aspirations"
and yet others stating the reverse.
Also noticed many references to her "small voice". Is that a good
thing?

I don't really care...I just want her nekkid and on silk sheets.


Pe

[a***@hotmail.com]

LOL.

[dtritter]

Post by E Varden

Post by vector
Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?
Just got a copy of her La Luna CD, I'm thinking both, but was
wondering.
I've read reviews where some say, "pop singer with artsy aspirations"
and yet others stating the reverse.
Also noticed many references to her "small voice". Is that a good
thing?

I don't really care...I just want her nekkid and on silk sheets.
Pe

i'd suppose that she does that stuff badly too.

[Valfer]

No, you don't. Believe me.

Valfer

[Stephen Jay-Taylor]

"...I just want her nekkid and on silk sheets." EV

I saw her - no singing involved, thank God - at a party three or so years
ago, when it struck me forcibly that she looked just like Shelly Long's
mother. If that is indeed your idée de fétiche, you at least have the
comfort of knowing that nowhere, in the wide world of Christendom, do you
have a rival. Enjoy !

SJT, thinking her and Lloyds-Bank were remarkably well-matched.

[a***@aol.com]

Post by Stephen Jay-Taylor
"...I just want her nekkid and on silk sheets." EV
I saw her - no singing involved, thank God - at a party three or so years
ago, when it struck me forcibly that she looked just like Shelly Long's
mother. If that is indeed your idée de fétiche, you at least have the
comfort of knowing that nowhere, in the wide world of Christendom, do you
have a rival. Enjoy !
SJT, thinking her and Lloyds-Bank were remarkably well-matched.

Here is a funny thing! Ms Brightman can sing an A which evokes a
sympathetic response from Alicia.

Do you want a long list of opera singers who can't? Many favoured on
here, some by you.

You should come to rehearsals more often, I think.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

[Stephen Jay-Taylor]

"You should come to rehearsals more often, I think." AMW

Not only should I not go to more rehearsals, I should, if I had any sense,
go to considerably fewer performances I was upbraided by a non-acquaintance
for speaking poorly of Pappano's "Otello". "Why ?", I enquired, "How many
others have you seen or heard that it's in any way superior to ?" "Well, I
haven't seen it live before, of course, but........" You can imagine the
rest, which involved a certain amount of home-truth telling on my part, and
a mild disinclination to respond positively to the enthusiasm of someone who
has no idea what they're talking about, but doesn't let that little detail
get in the way of them doing so volubly.

And I'll worry more about singers who can't maintain a steady middle A -
what I assume you refer to - when someone transposes Stockhausen's
"Stimmung", and that's all the poor buggers have to sing all night long.

SJT, wondering who or what Alicia is to be such a yardstick....

[a***@aol.com]

Post by Stephen Jay-Taylor
SJT, wondering who or what Alicia is to be such a yardstick....

Alicia is my a-start drum who responded appropriately when Ms B sang
her unaccompanied a although of course the poor girl has never really
recovered from Gwynneth Jones who was quite capable of starting the
whole set off - at the same time.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

[Terry Simmons]

Post by vector
Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?
Just got a copy of her La Luna CD, I'm thinking both, but was
wondering.
I've read reviews where some say, "pop singer with artsy aspirations"
and yet others stating the reverse.
Also noticed many references to her "small voice". Is that a good
thing?
vector (Opera challenged) jones
---
"In religion,
just because it talks like a duck,
doesn't mean it's a duck"

Such a voice would probably never really make a sufficient impression in the
opera house. But I am constantly baffled by the voice of Katherine Battle, whose
voice, it seems to me, would make little or no impression either. How do they
get away with it?

[Mitchell Kaufman]

Post by Terry Simmons
Such a voice would probably never really make a sufficient impression in
the opera house. But I am constantly baffled by the voice of Katherine
Battle, whose voice, it seems to me, would make little or no impression
either. How do they get away with it?

Not so. Ms. Battle's voice reached impressively to the furthest reaches
of the Met. It was not a large voice, but it carried well.

MK

[Leonard Tillman]

In article
Sarah Brightman- Opera or Pop?
Just got a copy of her La Luna CD, I'm
thinking both, but was wondering.
I've read reviews where some say, "pop singer
with artsy aspirations" and yet others stating
the reverse.
Also noticed many references to her "small
voice". Is that a good thing?
vector (Opera challenged) jones

---

"In religion,
just because it talks like a duck,
doesn't mean it's a duck"
Such a voice would probably never really
make a sufficient impression in the opera
house.

In a less-than maximum sized venue, and in lyric/coloratura roles, she'd
have a chance, doing no worse than many of her vocal weight.

But I am constantly baffled by the voice of
Katherine Battle, whose voice, it seems to
me, would make little or no impression either.

Battle's voice, though leggiero, does carry well, - at least to the
Met's Balcony area, and likely farther back. The sound-quality is purely
beautiful, matching her artistry and appearance, her reputed
difficulties with other singers, management, etc., notwithstanding (at
least, not to the audience).

LT