Discussion:
Ariadne auf Naxos
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Miriam Agron
2004-10-24 22:32:33 UTC
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Hello,

An opera discussion group I belong plan to listen to this opera - any
ssuggestons as to which performance to choose"

Thank you,
Miriam Agron
Richard Loeb
2004-10-24 23:21:43 UTC
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My favorite remains the Karajan -Schwarzkopf from 1954. The entire
performance has a style about it that just about perfectly fits this opera
and Schwarzkopf is in prime voice. Seefried is a wonderful Compser and the
supporting cast is exemplery as is Karajans leadership (with Dennis Brain on
French horn). The tight Rudolf Schock bothers others more than me but I have
heard much worse. An excellent stereo set is the Kempe Richard
Post by Miriam Agron
Hello,
An opera discussion group I belong plan to listen to this opera - any
ssuggestons as to which performance to choose"
Thank you,
Miriam Agron
Stephen Jay-Taylor
2004-10-25 01:06:52 UTC
Permalink
I'm not sure how your group operates. Do you listen en masse, in sepulchral
silence, and hit the tea-and-biscuits after the Prologue, awash with
opinions ? Or listen separately and meet up to match notes after ? I ask,
because if you go the communal route, there's a lot to be said for watching
as well as listening, and there are at least two very fine "Ariadne"s
available on DVD/video, one of them "historical" ( i.e. in black-and-white
mono ) from the Salzburg Festival with the VPO under Karl Böhm and an
outstanding cast ; and one "modern" ( in colour and stereo, though in a very
fey and old Dresden china production ) from the Met under Levine with Jess
E. Normous and co. Either would give a very clear account of the work (
which for some bizarre reason nowadays is becoming increasingly problematic
to stage ) and have first-rate musical values.
But if it's audio only as the order of the day, then I'd like to suggest a
set that never gets mentioned when "Ariadne" makes one of her surprisingly
frequent appearances here, and that's the Philips, with the Leipzigers under
Masur and a dream cast of old Jess E., Varady and Gruberova ( Paul Frey's
not up to much as Bacchus, but then neither's anybody else on disc really,
and you could do worse, like Schock, or Kollo )

SJT, hoping this helps
Miriam Agron
2004-10-27 05:35:30 UTC
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Thanks for all the information.

Miriam
Post by Stephen Jay-Taylor
I'm not sure how your group operates. Do you listen en masse, in sepulchral
silence, and hit the tea-and-biscuits after the Prologue, awash with
opinions ? Or listen separately and meet up to match notes after ? I ask,
because if you go the communal route, there's a lot to be said for watching
William D. Kasimer
2004-10-27 13:18:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Jay-Taylor
But if it's audio only as the order of the day, then I'd like to suggest a
set that never gets mentioned when "Ariadne" makes one of her surprisingly
frequent appearances here, and that's the Philips, with the Leipzigers under
Masur and a dream cast of old Jess E., Varady and Gruberova ( Paul Frey's
not up to much as Bacchus, but then neither's anybody else on disc really,
and you could do worse, like Schock, or Kollo )
Actually, Frey's bettered by several on disc, including Heppner and
King.

What rules out the Masur for me is Masur himself. I've never heard
such leaden, charmless conducting in this opera, or from Masur in
other repertoire.

Bill
Mark
2004-10-25 00:49:36 UTC
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Post by Miriam Agron
An opera discussion group I belong plan to listen to this opera - any
ssuggestons as to which performance to choose"
My favorite remains the 1957 recording by Eric Leinsdorf with Leonie Rysanek
and Roberta Peters. No one I've ever heard could sing Es gibt ein Reich like
Rysanek could. I also enjoy the more easily available Levine recording with
Tomowa-Sintow and Kathleen Battle. I despised the Jessye Norman attempt at this
opera.
Mark
g***@gmail.com
2019-05-06 07:14:20 UTC
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Post by Mark
Post by Miriam Agron
An opera discussion group I belong plan to listen to this opera - any
ssuggestons as to which performance to choose"
My favorite remains the 1957 recording by Eric Leinsdorf with Leonie Rysanek
and Roberta Peters. No one I've ever heard could sing Es gibt ein Reich like
Rysanek could. I also enjoy the more easily available Levine recording with
Tomowa-Sintow and Kathleen Battle. I despised the Jessye Norman attempt at this
opera.
Mark
(Recent Youtube upload):

Ariadne auf Naxos - Chicago 1981 Rysanek, Johns, Welting, Minton, Janowski
g***@gmail.com
2020-10-12 19:58:20 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Mark
Post by Miriam Agron
An opera discussion group I belong plan to listen to this opera - any
ssuggestons as to which performance to choose"
My favorite remains the 1957 recording by Eric Leinsdorf with Leonie Rysanek
and Roberta Peters. No one I've ever heard could sing Es gibt ein Reich like
Rysanek could. I also enjoy the more easily available Levine recording with
Tomowa-Sintow and Kathleen Battle. I despised the Jessye Norman attempt at this
opera.
Mark
Ariadne auf Naxos - Chicago 1981 Rysanek, Johns, Welting, Minton, Janowski
(Recent Youtube upload):

Peter Anders & Hilde Zadek "Du schönes Wesen" Ariadne auf Naxos
Nora Renka
2004-10-25 02:59:46 UTC
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Post by Miriam Agron
Hello,
An opera discussion group I belong plan to listen to this opera - any
ssuggestons as to which performance to choose"
Thank you,
Miriam Agron
You might try searching the archives--this subject has been discussed,
as I recall, many a time.

I myself like the Kempe recording with Janowitz and King, especially
for Kempe's pacing and the orchestral fluency.

-Nora
(Extremely Overworked Strauss Monster!)
Steven Chung
2004-10-25 04:30:05 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@posting.google.com>,
Nora Renka <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
# I myself like the Kempe recording with Janowitz

Amazingly great.

# and King,

Pretty damn good. But Zylis and Geszty aren't.

# especially
# for Kempe's pacing

Undramatic, dull. A texture/coloristic wallow.

# and the orchestral fluency.

Astounding, but see above.

I'll suggest Boehm 2 (Salzburg '54) despite the sound (DG's is better than
Gala's), or Boehm 1 (Salzburg '44) despite the cast (besides Seefried,
who's great in both). But don't miss Krauss' prologue-less recording with
the incomparable Erna Berger!

Too bad all modern performances are wrecked by miscast Composers.

S.
Richard Loeb
2004-10-25 11:52:48 UTC
Permalink
Not true- Jurinac is perfect for Leinsdorf - better even than the mature
Seefried for Karajan. Richard
Post by Steven Chung
# I myself like the Kempe recording with Janowitz
Amazingly great.
# and King,
Pretty damn good. But Zylis and Geszty aren't.
# especially
# for Kempe's pacing
Undramatic, dull. A texture/coloristic wallow.
# and the orchestral fluency.
Astounding, but see above.
I'll suggest Boehm 2 (Salzburg '54) despite the sound (DG's is better than
Gala's), or Boehm 1 (Salzburg '44) despite the cast (besides Seefried,
who's great in both). But don't miss Krauss' prologue-less recording with
the incomparable Erna Berger!
Too bad all modern performances are wrecked by miscast Composers.
S.
Steven Chung
2004-10-26 02:15:15 UTC
Permalink
I guess you meant my comment about 'all modern performances'? Jurinac is
excellent, but that recording is almost 50 years old! As for the last few
decades, if I hear another mezzo bull her way through 'Du Venussohn', I'll
scream. Would love to hear, say, Roeschmann in the part.

S.

In article <uOadncPaQOuTdOHcRVn-***@comcast.com>,
Richard Loeb <***@comcast.net> wrote:
# Not true- Jurinac is perfect for Leinsdorf - better even than the mature
# Seefried for Karajan. Richard
# "Steven Chung" <***@panix.com> wrote in message
# news:clhvgd$m3n$***@panix2.panix.com...
# > In article <***@posting.google.com>,
# > Nora Renka <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
# > # I myself like the Kempe recording with Janowitz
# >
# > Amazingly great.
# >
# > # and King,
# >
# > Pretty damn good. But Zylis and Geszty aren't.
# >
# > # especially
# > # for Kempe's pacing
# >
# > Undramatic, dull. A texture/coloristic wallow.
# >
# > # and the orchestral fluency.
# >
# > Astounding, but see above.
# >
# > I'll suggest Boehm 2 (Salzburg '54) despite the sound (DG's is better than
# > Gala's), or Boehm 1 (Salzburg '44) despite the cast (besides Seefried,
# > who's great in both). But don't miss Krauss' prologue-less recording with
# > the incomparable Erna Berger!
# >
# > Too bad all modern performances are wrecked by miscast Composers.
# >
# > S.
J S
2004-10-25 04:20:41 UTC
Permalink
Would someone please comment on the recent DG set (which turned out to
be Maestro Sinopoli's swan song)?
With his conducting and a cast including Voigt, Dessay, von Otter and
Heppner, this must surely be special.

~ Roger
William D. Kasimer
2004-10-25 14:26:29 UTC
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Post by J S
Would someone please comment on the recent DG set (which turned out to
be Maestro Sinopoli's swan song)?
With his conducting and a cast including Voigt, Dessay, von Otter and
Heppner, this must surely be special.
I should have been, but it really isn't. Here are some comments I
made on another forum when this was issued (it was in response to
another posting from someone named "Joshua Rabinowitz"):

The orchestra plays very well, and while there's
nothing egregiously *wrong* with the conducting, it lacks any of the
magic
that I hear on the best recordings of the opera (especially the Kempe,
which has been my favorite). Sinopoli certainly provides better
leadership
than does, for example, Masur.

As for the singers, von Otter's the biggest disappointment. She
sounds a
bit thin and shrill, and curiously underpowered. She can't seem to
make
much of an impression, because she seems to be doing all she can to
simply
make the necessary sounds. Dessay has all of the notes and makes a
lovely
sound - what she lacks is the sort of vocal personality and/or panache
of
Streich and (especially) Gruberova.

Heppner is probably the best reason to buy the set. He's easily the
best
Bacchus on records, and I'm pleased to report that DG seems to record
him
better than RCA ever did, which bodes well for his future projects
with
that label (a CD of French arias is due out in November).

As for Voigt, "Joshua Rabinowitz" fails to point out that her Ariadne
is a
very impressive piece of singing per se. The voice sounds large, even
from
top to bottom, and steady as a rock. On the basis of this recording,
I
think that she'd make an ideal Bruennhilde. Unfortunately, Ariadne
isn't
Bruennhilde, and while admiring the sheer sound I wish for much more
lyricism, a sense of ease, and something more than the most
generalized "temperament".

There's a very strong Music Master from Albert Dohmen, rather
different
from the usual aging baritone ready for the glue factory. Also a
particularly characterful group of comedians, particulary Genz as
Harlekin.

Summary: Fans of any of the lead singers (except ASvO) are not likely
to be
disappointed. The Opera itself (as opposed to the Prologue) has, I
think,
never been *sung* this well on records. An excellent "reference"
version,
but not likely to supplant Kempe on my shelf.

Bill
David Melnick
2004-10-25 17:58:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by William D. Kasimer
(it was in response to
"Joshua Rabinowitz" was another Pineiro pseudonym, I
believe. Not that all blanket putdowns of Voigt are from
him. We had a person on rmo awhile back with a running fever
over her being praised by us inferior "Americans."

dav
g***@gmail.com
2019-05-06 20:34:20 UTC
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Post by Miriam Agron
Hello,
An opera discussion group I belong plan to listen to this opera - any
ssuggestons as to which performance to choose"
Thank you,
Miriam Agron
Recommended recordings:

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/richard-strauss%E2%80%99s-ariadne-auf-naxos-which-recording-should-you-buy
gggg gggg
2022-10-23 08:30:42 UTC
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Post by Miriam Agron
Hello,
An opera discussion group I belong plan to listen to this opera - any
ssuggestons as to which performance to choose"
Thank you,
Miriam Agron
Which of Bohm's recordings do you like best?:

The June 11, 1944 live Vienna performance, attended by Strauss himself, on his 80th birthday
The 1954 Salzburg with Della Casa & Rudolf Schock
The 1964 Salzburg with Christa Ludwig & Jess Thomas
1965 Salzburg (on DVD
The live Vienna 1967 with Janowitz & James King
The 1968 DG recording with mostly the same cast as the '65
The live Vienna November 1976
The 1978 Salzburg video

Other recordings?
gggg gggg
2022-10-23 17:42:03 UTC
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Post by Miriam Agron
Hello,
An opera discussion group I belong plan to listen to this opera - any
ssuggestons as to which performance to choose"
Thank you,
Miriam Agron
(2022 Youtube upload):

"Birgit Nilsson Set Svanholm Elisabeth Söderström Ariadne auf Naxos full opera (1949 live)"
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