Discussion:
The Spinto is the King of Tenors
(too old to reply)
Samurai
2008-08-20 23:45:24 UTC
Permalink
The etymology, literal meaning, or original meaning of a term is not
determinative. A spinto tenor is NOT a lyric tenor who is able to
force his voice and sing heavier roles. A spinto is a middle weight
tenor voice, such as that of Tucker, Bergonzi, Domingo, and Corelli,
which has more power, cutting ability, body, and darkness than a lyric
tenor, but with some flexibility and a true, non-baritonal, tenor
quality. The typical spinto tenor is able to sing lighter roles such
as Nemorino, Alfredo, and Rodolfo, can sing heavier roles such as
Manrico, Radames, Cavaradossi, Puccini's Des Grieux, Ernani, Don
Alvaro, and Calaf, week after week, and occasionally perform Samson or
Otello. Spintos usually have enough power and vocal presence to hold
their own with the loudest sopranos. Big-voiced lyric tenors such as
Pavarotti and Carreras may try Radames or Calaf but may be inadequate
to the challenge or may disappoint. Dramatic tenors such as Del
Monaco are barred from lighter roles such as Alfredo and Rodolfo, and
may be best suited to a small number of roles including Otello and
Samson. Dramatic tenors are limited by their very dark, mature sound,
and often harsh timbre and characteristically forceful delivery.

Thus the spinto tenor is best able to take on and do well in a broad
selection of the most popular operas of the Italian and French canon
and can sing these roles for decades. They can impersonate romantic
figures and young lovers as well as warriors and authority figures.

Samurai
Jeffrey
2008-08-21 09:30:12 UTC
Permalink
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus, Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
--
Jeffrey
Mike Richter
2008-08-22 18:08:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeffrey
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus, Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
Except for James King, emperor of Emperors (FroSch), Siegmund,
Florestan, ...

Mike
--
***@cpl.net
http://www.mrichter.com/
Paul Ferraro
2008-08-22 18:34:52 UTC
Permalink
AND, Mario DelMonaco - OTELLO, Canio, Chenier, Johnson, Polione - Capo Dei
Tutti Capi!

DonPaolo
Post by Jeffrey
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus, Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
Except for James King, emperor of Emperors (FroSch), Siegmund, Florestan,
...
Mike
--
http://www.mrichter.com/
The Handelmaniac
2008-08-23 04:14:56 UTC
Permalink
AND, Mario DelMonaco - �OTELLO, Canio, Chenier, Johnson, Polione - Capo Dei
Tutti Capi!
Post by Jeffrey
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus, Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
Except for James King, emperor of Emperors (FroSch), Siegmund, Florestan,
...
Mike
--
http://www.mrichter.com/- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Thanks to Samurai especially andf all of you for a most inspiring
thread...If we could kill the spammers,we could return to a "normal
opera group." The "tenor thing" is al;ways a wonderful topic..since
the variety is so tremendous..and some oldies like myself have heard
some of the greats..whether live or in our collections.
Let us try this one (of course it depends on our ages):

I a;ways divide all my lists of favs into three parts:( 5 each)

I. Favorites of the past I never saw and think were fabulous,at least
from recordings:

Caruso
Thill
Voelker
Wunderlich
Melchior

II. Favorites i saw live no longer singing..alive or deceased
Tucker
Corelli
Del Monaco
Barioni
Bergonzi (Gedda is in there too..but I said Five)


III Today's tenors i love the most

Giordani
Florez
Licitra
Villazon(I hope)
Calleja

Naturally, you will have a series of lists totally
different..well,almost...so let us compare voices..and remember, when
we hear "new names' listed by people we respect, we are forced to
check them out...this is how we get to hear new singers.....so let us
hear from youse all.
Widdibop
2008-08-23 12:19:39 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 23, 12:14 am, The Handelmaniac <***@cs.com> wrote:

<If we could kill the spammers,we could return to a "normal
opera group>
Talk about stunned and amazed.
Widdibop
Paul Ferraro
2008-08-23 16:19:13 UTC
Permalink
I guess you're asking for individual lists of 5 tenors - historical, past
seen & today. OK, here's mine:

Historical: Caruso, Pertile, Merli, Bassi, Masini
Past Actually Seen: Corelli, Bergonzi, DelMonaco, Vickers, Gedda
Current: Alagna, Porretta III, Palombi, Alvarez, Villazon (IF....)

I'd like to add another category, namely tenors who were contemporary, but
never had an opportunity to see "live", or just once/twice: Salvatore
Fisichella, Nicola Martinucci, Franco Bonisolli, Emil Ivanov, Vincenzo
Scuderi.

Difficult limiting to only 5!!!!

DonPaolo
AND, Mario DelMonaco - ?OTELLO, Canio, Chenier, Johnson, Polione - Capo
Dei
Tutti Capi!
Post by Jeffrey
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus, Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
Except for James King, emperor of Emperors (FroSch), Siegmund, Florestan,
...
Mike
--
http://www.mrichter.com/- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Thanks to Samurai especially andf all of you for a most inspiring
thread...If we could kill the spammers,we could return to a "normal
opera group." The "tenor thing" is al;ways a wonderful topic..since
the variety is so tremendous..and some oldies like myself have heard
some of the greats..whether live or in our collections.
Let us try this one (of course it depends on our ages):

I a;ways divide all my lists of favs into three parts:( 5 each)

I. Favorites of the past I never saw and think were fabulous,at least
from recordings:

Caruso
Thill
Voelker
Wunderlich
Melchior

II. Favorites i saw live no longer singing..alive or deceased
Tucker
Corelli
Del Monaco
Barioni
Bergonzi (Gedda is in there too..but I said Five)


III Today's tenors i love the most

Giordani
Florez
Licitra
Villazon(I hope)
Calleja

Naturally, you will have a series of lists totally
different..well,almost...so let us compare voices..and remember, when
we hear "new names' listed by people we respect, we are forced to
check them out...this is how we get to hear new singers.....so let us
hear from youse all.
LT
2008-08-23 16:40:28 UTC
Permalink
We remember, also, that (Amedeo) Bassi, a tenor -despite the surname-
was the granddad of movie star Rossano Brazzi (whose own voice was
that of basso).

Best,
LT
Post by Paul Ferraro
I guess you're asking for individual lists of 5 tenors - historical, past
Historical: Caruso, Pertile, Merli, Bassi, Masini
Past Actually Seen: Corelli, Bergonzi, DelMonaco, Vickers, Gedda
Current: Alagna, Porretta III, Palombi, Alvarez, Villazon (IF....)
I'd like to add another category, namely tenors who were contemporary, but
never had an opportunity to see "live", or just once/twice:  Salvatore
Fisichella, Nicola Martinucci, Franco Bonisolli, Emil Ivanov, Vincenzo
Scuderi.
Difficult limiting to only 5!!!!
AND, Mario DelMonaco - ?OTELLO, Canio, Chenier, Johnson, Polione - Capo
Dei
Tutti Capi!
Post by Jeffrey
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus, Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
Except for James King, emperor of Emperors (FroSch), Siegmund, Florestan,
...
Mike
--
http://www.mrichter.com/-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Thanks to Samurai  especially  andf all of you for a most inspiring
thread...If we could kill the spammers,we could return to a "normal
opera group." The "tenor thing" is al;ways a wonderful topic..since
the variety is so tremendous..and some oldies like myself have heard
some of the greats..whether live or in our collections.
I a;ways divide all my lists of favs into three parts:( 5 each)
I.  Favorites of the past I never saw and think were fabulous,at least
Caruso
Thill
Voelker
Wunderlich
Melchior
II. Favorites i saw live no longer singing..alive or deceased
Tucker
Corelli
Del Monaco
Barioni
Bergonzi   (Gedda is in there too..but I said Five)
III Today's tenors i love the most
 Giordani
Florez
Licitra
Villazon(I hope)
Calleja
                  Naturally, you will have a series of lists totally
different..well,almost...so let us compare voices..and remember, when
we hear "new names' listed by people we respect, we are forced to
check them out...this is how we get to hear new singers.....so let us
hear from youse all.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The Handelmaniac
2008-08-24 05:21:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Ferraro
I guess you're asking for individual lists of 5 tenors - historical, past
Historical: Caruso, Pertile, Merli, Bassi, Masini
Past Actually Seen: Corelli, Bergonzi, DelMonaco, Vickers, Gedda
Current: Alagna, Porretta III, Palombi, Alvarez, Villazon (IF....)
I'd like to add another category, namely tenors who were contemporary, but
never had an opportunity to see "live", or just once/twice: �Salvatore
Fisichella, Nicola Martinucci, Franco Bonisolli, Emil Ivanov, Vincenzo
Scuderi.
Difficult limiting to only 5!!!!
AND, Mario DelMonaco - ?OTELLO, Canio, Chenier, Johnson, Polione - Capo
Dei
Tutti Capi!
Post by Jeffrey
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus, Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
Except for James King, emperor of Emperors (FroSch), Siegmund, Florestan,
...
Mike
--
http://www.mrichter.com/-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Thanks to Samurai �especially �andf all of you for a most inspiring
thread...If we could kill the spammers,we could return to a "normal
opera group." The "tenor thing" is al;ways a wonderful topic..since
the variety is so tremendous..and some oldies like myself have heard
some of the greats..whether live or in our collections.
I a;ways divide all my lists of favs into three parts:( 5 each)
I. �Favorites of the past I never saw and think were fabulous,at least
Caruso
Thill
Voelker
Wunderlich
Melchior
II. Favorites i saw live no longer singing..alive or deceased
Tucker
Corelli
Del Monaco
Barioni
Bergonzi � (Gedda is in there too..but I said Five)
III Today's tenors i love the most
�Giordani
Florez
Licitra
Villazon(I hope)
Calleja
� � � � � � � � � Naturally, you will have a series of lists totally
different..well,almost...so let us compare voices..and remember, when
we hear "new names' listed by people we respect, we are forced to
check them out...this is how we get to hear new singers.....so let us
hear from youse all.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Palombi????Never heard of him....Any recordings with him?????CH
Paul Ferraro
2008-08-24 13:49:50 UTC
Permalink
"The Handelmaniac" <***@cs.com> wrote in message news:f9af964c-fa5d-468a-b505-***@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

Palombi????Never heard of him....Any recordings with him?????CH

Charlie - Antonello Palombi is the dude who subbed for Alagna in the Scala
Aida. He's made quite a good impression at Seattle & Baltimore Operas as
Alvaro, Radames & Cavaradossi. Check out his web site - samples of his
"live" singing.

DonPaolo
Samurai
2008-08-24 23:17:33 UTC
Permalink
I have sung with Frank Poretta III (Otello) and Vincenzo Scuderi
(Aida). Frank is a very talented singer and actor. He has a dramatic
tenor voice that has a basically soft timbre from which ring emerges
as he ups the volume. He was a very secure musician and vocalist in
our production of Otello (his first). I would like to hear him
again. Scuderi had a big, impressive voice which was not under
control. I think he sang sharp quite a bit and struggled with Celeste
Aida in every rehearsal and performance. Not good enough intonation
or basic vocal technique to be a first class artist despite the
basically good voice.

Samurai
Post by Paul Ferraro
I guess you're asking for individual lists of 5 tenors - historical, past
Historical: Caruso, Pertile, Merli, Bassi, Masini
Past Actually Seen: Corelli, Bergonzi, DelMonaco, Vickers, Gedda
Current: Alagna, Porretta III, Palombi, Alvarez, Villazon (IF....)
I'd like to add another category, namely tenors who were contemporary, but
never had an opportunity to see "live", or just once/twice:  Salvatore
Fisichella, Nicola Martinucci, Franco Bonisolli, Emil Ivanov, Vincenzo
Scuderi.
Difficult limiting to only 5!!!!
AND, Mario DelMonaco - ?OTELLO, Canio, Chenier, Johnson, Polione - Capo
Dei
Tutti Capi!
Post by Jeffrey
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus, Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
Except for James King, emperor of Emperors (FroSch), Siegmund, Florestan,
...
Mike
--
http://www.mrichter.com/-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Thanks to Samurai  especially  andf all of you for a most inspiring
thread...If we could kill the spammers,we could return to a "normal
opera group." The "tenor thing" is al;ways a wonderful topic..since
the variety is so tremendous..and some oldies like myself have heard
some of the greats..whether live or in our collections.
I a;ways divide all my lists of favs into three parts:( 5 each)
I.  Favorites of the past I never saw and think were fabulous,at least
Caruso
Thill
Voelker
Wunderlich
Melchior
II. Favorites i saw live no longer singing..alive or deceased
Tucker
Corelli
Del Monaco
Barioni
Bergonzi   (Gedda is in there too..but I said Five)
III Today's tenors i love the most
 Giordani
Florez
Licitra
Villazon(I hope)
Calleja
                  Naturally, you will have a series of lists totally
different..well,almost...so let us compare voices..and remember, when
we hear "new names' listed by people we respect, we are forced to
check them out...this is how we get to hear new singers.....so let us
hear from youse all.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
LT
2008-08-24 23:46:43 UTC
Permalink
I haven't yet heard Scuderi, but your assessment of Frank Poretta III
confirms the impression I got from several audio clips; uncommonly
fine phrasing, too, making him a possible throwback to an earlier
Golden Age.

Best
LT
Post by Samurai
I have sung with Frank Poretta III (Otello) and Vincenzo Scuderi
(Aida).  Frank is a very talented singer and actor.  He has a dramatic
tenor voice that has a basically soft timbre from which ring emerges
as he ups the volume. He was a very secure musician and vocalist in
our production of Otello (his first).  I would like to hear him
again.  Scuderi had a  big, impressive voice which was not under
control.  I think he sang sharp quite a bit and struggled with Celeste
Aida in every rehearsal and performance.  Not good enough intonation
or basic vocal technique to be a first class artist despite the
basically good voice.
Samurai
Post by Paul Ferraro
I guess you're asking for individual lists of 5 tenors - historical, past
Historical: Caruso, Pertile, Merli, Bassi, Masini
Past Actually Seen: Corelli, Bergonzi, DelMonaco, Vickers, Gedda
Current: Alagna, Porretta III, Palombi, Alvarez, Villazon (IF....)
I'd like to add another category, namely tenors who were contemporary, but
never had an opportunity to see "live", or just once/twice:  Salvatore
Fisichella, Nicola Martinucci, Franco Bonisolli, Emil Ivanov, Vincenzo
Scuderi.
Difficult limiting to only 5!!!!
AND, Mario DelMonaco - ?OTELLO, Canio, Chenier, Johnson, Polione - Capo
Dei
Tutti Capi!
Post by Jeffrey
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus, Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
Except for James King, emperor of Emperors (FroSch), Siegmund, Florestan,
...
Mike
--
http://www.mrichter.com/-Hidequoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Thanks to Samurai  especially  andf all of you for a most inspiring
thread...If we could kill the spammers,we could return to a "normal
opera group." The "tenor thing" is al;ways a wonderful topic..since
the variety is so tremendous..and some oldies like myself have heard
some of the greats..whether live or in our collections.
I a;ways divide all my lists of favs into three parts:( 5 each)
I.  Favorites of the past I never saw and think were fabulous,at least
Caruso
Thill
Voelker
Wunderlich
Melchior
II. Favorites i saw live no longer singing..alive or deceased
Tucker
Corelli
Del Monaco
Barioni
Bergonzi   (Gedda is in there too..but I said Five)
III Today's tenors i love the most
 Giordani
Florez
Licitra
Villazon(I hope)
Calleja
                  Naturally, you will have a series of lists totally
different..well,almost...so let us compare voices..and remember, when
we hear "new names' listed by people we respect, we are forced to
check them out...this is how we get to hear new singers.....so let us
hear from youse all.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Samurai
2008-08-25 00:09:56 UTC
Permalink
Leonard, did you hear Frank on the Net or in actual tapes played at
your house? There is no Porretta video on YouTube, just a Tosca clip
in which he appears briefly.

Samurai
Post by LT
I haven't yet heard Scuderi, but your assessment of Frank Poretta III
confirms the impression I got from several audio clips; uncommonly
fine phrasing, too, making him a possible throwback to an earlier
Golden Age.
Best
LT
Post by Samurai
I have sung with Frank Poretta III (Otello) and Vincenzo Scuderi
(Aida).  Frank is a very talented singer and actor.  He has a dramatic
tenor voice that has a basically soft timbre from which ring emerges
as he ups the volume. He was a very secure musician and vocalist in
our production of Otello (his first).  I would like to hear him
again.  Scuderi had a  big, impressive voice which was not under
control.  I think he sang sharp quite a bit and struggled with Celeste
Aida in every rehearsal and performance.  Not good enough intonation
or basic vocal technique to be a first class artist despite the
basically good voice.
Samurai
Post by Paul Ferraro
I guess you're asking for individual lists of 5 tenors - historical, past
Historical: Caruso, Pertile, Merli, Bassi, Masini
Past Actually Seen: Corelli, Bergonzi, DelMonaco, Vickers, Gedda
Current: Alagna, Porretta III, Palombi, Alvarez, Villazon (IF....)
I'd like to add another category, namely tenors who were contemporary, but
never had an opportunity to see "live", or just once/twice:  Salvatore
Fisichella, Nicola Martinucci, Franco Bonisolli, Emil Ivanov, Vincenzo
Scuderi.
Difficult limiting to only 5!!!!
AND, Mario DelMonaco - ?OTELLO, Canio, Chenier, Johnson, Polione - Capo
Dei
Tutti Capi!
Post by Jeffrey
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus, Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
Except for James King, emperor of Emperors (FroSch), Siegmund, Florestan,
...
Mike
--
http://www.mrichter.com/-Hidequotedtext -
- Show quoted text -
Thanks to Samurai  especially  andf all of you for a most inspiring
thread...If we could kill the spammers,we could return to a "normal
opera group." The "tenor thing" is al;ways a wonderful topic..since
the variety is so tremendous..and some oldies like myself have heard
some of the greats..whether live or in our collections.
I a;ways divide all my lists of favs into three parts:( 5 each)
I.  Favorites of the past I never saw and think were fabulous,at least
Caruso
Thill
Voelker
Wunderlich
Melchior
II. Favorites i saw live no longer singing..alive or deceased
Tucker
Corelli
Del Monaco
Barioni
Bergonzi   (Gedda is in there too..but I said Five)
III Today's tenors i love the most
 Giordani
Florez
Licitra
Villazon(I hope)
Calleja
                  Naturally, you will have a series of lists totally
different..well,almost...so let us compare voices..and remember, when
we hear "new names' listed by people we respect, we are forced to
check them out...this is how we get to hear new singers.....so let us
hear from youse all.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
LT
2008-08-25 00:24:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Samurai
Leonard, did you hear Frank on the Net or in actual tapes played at
your house?
Neither; I heard him only in some 'windows' formatted clips, IIRC they
were 'Celeste Aida' and 'Nessun Dorma'.
-Not sure if they're still on the 'net.
Post by Samurai
 There is no Porretta video on YouTube, just a Tosca clip
in which he appears briefly.
What I heard was just audio, with limited sonics, but that voice came
through with telling effect.
Post by Samurai
Samurai
Best
LT
Post by Samurai
Post by LT
I haven't yet heard Scuderi, but your assessment of Frank Poretta III
confirms the impression I got from several audio clips; uncommonly
fine phrasing, too, making him a possible throwback to an earlier
Golden Age.
Best
LT
Post by Samurai
I have sung with Frank Poretta III (Otello) and Vincenzo Scuderi
(Aida).  Frank is a very talented singer and actor.  He has a dramatic
tenor voice that has a basically soft timbre from which ring emerges
as he ups the volume. He was a very secure musician and vocalist in
our production of Otello (his first).  I would like to hear him
again.  Scuderi had a  big, impressive voice which was not under
control.  I think he sang sharp quite a bit and struggled with Celeste
Aida in every rehearsal and performance.  Not good enough intonation
or basic vocal technique to be a first class artist despite the
basically good voice.
Samurai
Post by Paul Ferraro
I guess you're asking for individual lists of 5 tenors - historical, past
Historical: Caruso, Pertile, Merli, Bassi, Masini
Past Actually Seen: Corelli, Bergonzi, DelMonaco, Vickers, Gedda
Current: Alagna, Porretta III, Palombi, Alvarez, Villazon (IF....)
I'd like to add another category, namely tenors who were contemporary, but
never had an opportunity to see "live", or just once/twice:  Salvatore
Fisichella, Nicola Martinucci, Franco Bonisolli, Emil Ivanov, Vincenzo
Scuderi.
Difficult limiting to only 5!!!!
AND, Mario DelMonaco - ?OTELLO, Canio, Chenier, Johnson, Polione - Capo
Dei
Tutti Capi!
Post by Mike Richter
Post by Jeffrey
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus, Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
Except for James King, emperor of Emperors (FroSch), Siegmund,
Florestan,
...
Mike
--
http://www.mrichter.com/-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -
Thanks to Samurai  especially  andf all of you for a most inspiring
thread...If we could kill the spammers,we could return to a "normal
opera group." The "tenor thing" is al;ways a wonderful topic..since
the variety is so tremendous..and some oldies like myself have heard
some of the greats..whether live or in our collections.
I a;ways divide all my lists of favs into three parts:( 5 each)
I.  Favorites of the past I never saw and think were fabulous,at least
Caruso
Thill
Voelker
Wunderlich
Melchior
II. Favorites i saw live no longer singing..alive or deceased
Tucker
Corelli
Del Monaco
Barioni
Bergonzi   (Gedda is in there too..but I said Five)
III Today's tenors i love the most
 Giordani
Florez
Licitra
Villazon(I hope)
Calleja
                  Naturally, you will have a series of lists totally
different..well,almost...so let us compare voices..and remember, when
we hear "new names' listed by people we respect, we are forced to
check them out...this is how we get to hear new singers.....so let us
hear from youse all.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
LT
2008-08-25 00:44:50 UTC
Permalink
PS:
Though unable to find the Porretta III clips I'd previously heard,
here are some items of interest, including one by his brother, re
their operatic family:

http://www.frankporretta.com/Home.html
*
http://www.ldynwaitin.com/matthew/porretta/family.html

Their father, Frank Porretta II, starred in some NBC Opera telecasts,
long before the Met's series started on PBS. I remember him in
'L'amore del tre re' (from early '62)with Richard Torigi, Phyllis
Curtin, and Giorgio Tozzi. Porretta II was also the tragic young
lover in Rise Stevens' recording of 'The King and I'.

LT
Post by LT
Post by Samurai
Leonard, did you hear Frank on the Net or in actual tapes played at
your house?
Neither; I heard him only in some 'windows' formatted clips, IIRC they
were 'Celeste Aida' and 'Nessun Dorma'.
-Not sure if they're still on the 'net.
Post by Samurai
There is no Porretta video on YouTube, just a Tosca clip
in which he appears briefly.
What I heard was just audio, with limited sonics, but that voice came
through with telling effect.
Post by Samurai
Samurai
Best
LT
Post by Samurai
Post by LT
I haven't yet heard Scuderi, but your assessment of Frank Poretta III
confirms the impression I got from several audio clips; uncommonly
fine phrasing, too, making him a possible throwback to an earlier
Golden Age.
Best
LT
Post by Samurai
I have sung with Frank Poretta III (Otello) and Vincenzo Scuderi
(Aida). Frank is a very talented singer and actor. He has a dramatic
tenor voice that has a basically soft timbre from which ring emerges
as he ups the volume. He was a very secure musician and vocalist in
our production of Otello (his first). I would like to hear him
again. Scuderi had a big, impressive voice which was not under
control. I think he sang sharp quite a bit and struggled with Celeste
Aida in every rehearsal and performance. Not good enough intonation
or basic vocal technique to be a first class artist despite the
basically good voice.
Samurai
Post by Paul Ferraro
I guess you're asking for individual lists of 5 tenors - historical, past
Historical: Caruso, Pertile, Merli, Bassi, Masini
Past Actually Seen: Corelli, Bergonzi, DelMonaco, Vickers, Gedda
Current: Alagna, Porretta III, Palombi, Alvarez, Villazon (IF....)
I'd like to add another category, namely tenors who were contemporary, but
never had an opportunity to see "live", or just once/twice: Salvatore
Fisichella, Nicola Martinucci, Franco Bonisolli, Emil Ivanov, Vincenzo
Scuderi.
Difficult limiting to only 5!!!!
AND, Mario DelMonaco - ?OTELLO, Canio, Chenier, Johnson, Polione - Capo
Dei
Tutti Capi!
Post by Mike Richter
Post by Jeffrey
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus, Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
Except for James King, emperor of Emperors (FroSch), Siegmund,
Florestan,
...
Mike
--
http://www.mrichter.com/-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -
Thanks to Samurai especially andf all of you for a most inspiring
thread...If we could kill the spammers,we could return to a "normal
opera group." The "tenor thing" is al;ways a wonderful topic..since
the variety is so tremendous..and some oldies like myself have heard
some of the greats..whether live or in our collections.
I a;ways divide all my lists of favs into three parts:( 5 each)
I. Favorites of the past I never saw and think were fabulous,at least
Caruso
Thill
Voelker
Wunderlich
Melchior
II. Favorites i saw live no longer singing..alive or deceased
Tucker
Corelli
Del Monaco
Barioni
Bergonzi (Gedda is in there too..but I said Five)
III Today's tenors i love the most
Giordani
Florez
Licitra
Villazon(I hope)
Calleja
Naturally, you will have a series of lists totally
different..well,almost...so let us compare voices..and remember, when
we hear "new names' listed by people we respect, we are forced to
check them out...this is how we get to hear new singers.....so let us
hear from youse all.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Paul Ferraro
2008-08-25 12:34:12 UTC
Permalink
IIRC - there is a clip of Act 2 of Tosca w/Fabiana Bravo. Few years ago, VA
Opera Co. There is also a CD of his recent Cavaradossi from Seattle - very
impressive!!!

DonP.
Post by Samurai
Leonard, did you hear Frank on the Net or in actual tapes played at
your house?
Neither; I heard him only in some 'windows' formatted clips, IIRC they
were 'Celeste Aida' and 'Nessun Dorma'.
-Not sure if they're still on the 'net.
Post by Samurai
There is no Porretta video on YouTube, just a Tosca clip
in which he appears briefly.
What I heard was just audio, with limited sonics, but that voice came
through with telling effect.
Post by Samurai
Samurai
Best
LT
Post by Samurai
Post by LT
I haven't yet heard Scuderi, but your assessment of Frank Poretta III
confirms the impression I got from several audio clips; uncommonly
fine phrasing, too, making him a possible throwback to an earlier
Golden Age.
Best
LT
Post by Samurai
I have sung with Frank Poretta III (Otello) and Vincenzo Scuderi
(Aida). Frank is a very talented singer and actor. He has a dramatic
tenor voice that has a basically soft timbre from which ring emerges
as he ups the volume. He was a very secure musician and vocalist in
our production of Otello (his first). I would like to hear him
again. Scuderi had a big, impressive voice which was not under
control. I think he sang sharp quite a bit and struggled with Celeste
Aida in every rehearsal and performance. Not good enough intonation
or basic vocal technique to be a first class artist despite the
basically good voice.
Samurai
Post by Paul Ferraro
I guess you're asking for individual lists of 5 tenors - historical, past
Historical: Caruso, Pertile, Merli, Bassi, Masini
Past Actually Seen: Corelli, Bergonzi, DelMonaco, Vickers, Gedda
Current: Alagna, Porretta III, Palombi, Alvarez, Villazon (IF....)
I'd like to add another category, namely tenors who were
contemporary, but
Salvatore
Fisichella, Nicola Martinucci, Franco Bonisolli, Emil Ivanov, Vincenzo
Scuderi.
Difficult limiting to only 5!!!!
AND, Mario DelMonaco - ?OTELLO, Canio, Chenier, Johnson, Polione - Capo
Dei
Tutti Capi!
Post by Mike Richter
Post by Jeffrey
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus,
Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
Except for James King, emperor of Emperors (FroSch), Siegmund,
Florestan,
...
Mike
--
http://www.mrichter.com/-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -
Thanks to Samurai especially andf all of you for a most inspiring
thread...If we could kill the spammers,we could return to a "normal
opera group." The "tenor thing" is al;ways a wonderful topic..since
the variety is so tremendous..and some oldies like myself have heard
some of the greats..whether live or in our collections.
I a;ways divide all my lists of favs into three parts:( 5 each)
I. Favorites of the past I never saw and think were fabulous,at
least
Caruso
Thill
Voelker
Wunderlich
Melchior
II. Favorites i saw live no longer singing..alive or deceased
Tucker
Corelli
Del Monaco
Barioni
Bergonzi (Gedda is in there too..but I said Five)
III Today's tenors i love the most
Giordani
Florez
Licitra
Villazon(I hope)
Calleja
Naturally, you will have a series of lists totally
different..well,almost...so let us compare voices..and remember, when
we hear "new names' listed by people we respect, we are forced to
check them out...this is how we get to hear new singers.....so let us
hear from youse all.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
LT
2008-08-25 13:11:46 UTC
Permalink
It's fair to say he's 'underrecorded'!

But then, it's relatively early in his career, sooo, we'll see what
happens!

Best,
LT
IIRC - there is a clip of Act 2 of Tosca w/Fabiana Bravo.  Few years ago, VA
Opera Co.  There is also a CD of his recent Cavaradossi from Seattle - very
impressive!!!
Post by Samurai
Leonard, did you hear Frank on the Net or in actual tapes played at
your house?
Neither; I heard him only in some 'windows' formatted clips, IIRC they
were 'Celeste Aida' and 'Nessun Dorma'.
 -Not sure if they're still on the 'net.
Post by Samurai
There is no Porretta video on YouTube, just a Tosca clip
in which he appears briefly.
What I heard was just audio, with limited sonics, but that voice came
through with telling effect.
Post by Samurai
Samurai
Best
LT
Post by Samurai
Post by LT
I haven't yet heard Scuderi, but your assessment of Frank Poretta III
confirms the impression I got from several audio clips; uncommonly
fine phrasing, too, making him a possible throwback to an earlier
Golden Age.
Best
LT
Post by Samurai
I have sung with Frank Poretta III (Otello) and Vincenzo Scuderi
(Aida). Frank is a very talented singer and actor. He has a dramatic
tenor voice that has a basically soft timbre from which ring emerges
as he ups the volume. He was a very secure musician and vocalist in
our production of Otello (his first). I would like to hear him
again. Scuderi had a big, impressive voice which was not under
control. I think he sang sharp quite a bit and struggled with Celeste
Aida in every rehearsal and performance. Not good enough intonation
or basic vocal technique to be a first class artist despite the
basically good voice.
Samurai
Post by Paul Ferraro
I guess you're asking for individual lists of 5 tenors - historical, past
Historical: Caruso, Pertile, Merli, Bassi, Masini
Past Actually Seen: Corelli, Bergonzi, DelMonaco, Vickers, Gedda
Current: Alagna, Porretta III, Palombi, Alvarez, Villazon (IF....)
I'd like to add another category, namely tenors who were contemporary, but
Salvatore
Fisichella, Nicola Martinucci, Franco Bonisolli, Emil Ivanov, Vincenzo
Scuderi.
Difficult limiting to only 5!!!!
AND, Mario DelMonaco - ?OTELLO, Canio, Chenier, Johnson, Polione - Capo
Dei
Tutti Capi!
Post by Mike Richter
Post by Jeffrey
...but he who knows and respects his fach (think Kraus,
Schipa), is the
Emperor of Tenors.
Emperor outranks King.
Except for James King, emperor of Emperors (FroSch), Siegmund,
Florestan,
...
Mike
--
http://www.mrichter.com/-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -
Thanks to Samurai especially andf all of you for a most inspiring
thread...If we could kill the spammers,we could return to a "normal
opera group." The "tenor thing" is al;ways a wonderful topic..since
the variety is so tremendous..and some oldies like myself have heard
some of the greats..whether live or in our collections.
I a;ways divide all my lists of favs into three parts:( 5 each)
I. Favorites of the past I never saw and think were fabulous,at
least
Caruso
Thill
Voelker
Wunderlich
Melchior
II. Favorites i saw live no longer singing..alive or deceased
Tucker
Corelli
Del Monaco
Barioni
Bergonzi (Gedda is in there too..but I said Five)
III Today's tenors i love the most
Giordani
Florez
Licitra
Villazon(I hope)
Calleja
Naturally, you will have a series of lists totally
different..well,almost...so let us compare voices..and remember, when
we hear "new names' listed by people we respect, we are forced to
check them out...this is how we get to hear new singers.....so let us
hear from youse all.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
LT
2008-08-21 15:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Samurai
The etymology, literal meaning, or original meaning of a term is not
determinative.  A spinto tenor is NOT a lyric tenor who is able to
force his voice and sing heavier roles.  A spinto is a middle weight
tenor voice, such as that of Tucker, Bergonzi, Domingo, and Corelli,
which has more power, cutting ability, body, and darkness than a lyric
tenor, but with some flexibility and a true, non-baritonal, tenor
quality.  The typical spinto tenor is able to sing lighter roles such
as Nemorino, Alfredo, and Rodolfo,  can sing heavier roles such as
Manrico,  Radames, Cavaradossi, Puccini's Des Grieux, Ernani, Don
Alvaro, and Calaf, week after week, and occasionally perform Samson or
Otello.  Spintos usually have enough power and vocal presence to hold
their own with the loudest sopranos. Big-voiced lyric tenors such as
Pavarotti and Carreras may try Radames or Calaf but may be inadequate
to the challenge or may disappoint.  Dramatic tenors such as Del
Monaco are barred from lighter roles such as Alfredo and Rodolfo, and
may be best suited to a small number of roles including Otello and
Samson.  Dramatic tenors are limited by their very dark, mature sound,
and often harsh timbre and characteristically forceful delivery.
Thus the spinto tenor is best able to take on and do well in a broad
selection of the most popular operas of the Italian and French canon
and can sing these roles for decades.  They can impersonate romantic
figures and young lovers as well as warriors and authority figures.
Samurai
I essentially agree with the above, except that I"d considering the
spinto as 'King of the Tenor TYPES'; ie, one may be a spinto, and yet
not even approach the *quality* of some individuals of the other
types.

But, yes - a true spinto can and does take on most of the tenor
rep.

I'd also differ on some of the famed examples you gave, eg, Corelli as
a spinto - but it's not an issue since we all perceive differently.

Best,
LT
Samurai
2008-08-21 15:23:33 UTC
Permalink
Leonard,

To me Corelli is a clear example of a spinto. He had a big, heavy,
powerful voice but it was not really dark or baritonal--not even as
dark as Bergonzi's. He liked to sing Boheme and Romeo but his main rep
included Don Carlo, Tosca, Aida, Turandot, and the like. He could
have sung Otello but didn't get around to it, as Domingo never got
around to singing Tristan on stage.

Samurai
LT
2008-08-21 15:52:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Samurai
Leonard,
To me Corelli is a clear example of a spinto.  He had a big, heavy,
powerful voice but it was not really dark or baritonal--not even as
dark as Bergonzi's.
Then, of course, Bergonzi's early-career was as a baritone. Still, to
me, his voice sounded much 'lighter' than Corelli's - and not only in
magnitude.

In this regard, we're defining 'dramatic' in terms of baritonal
quality ('dark tone'), as much or more than by the voice's volume/
weight. I'd previously considered this as applying more to 'Heroic'
than to 'dramatic' tenors.
Post by Samurai
He liked to sing Boheme and Romeo but his main rep
included Don Carlo, Tosca,  Aida, Turandot, and the like.  He could
have sung Otello but didn't >get around to it
How I wish he did!!! Luckily, there are those three excerpts he left
(four, if we count both his duets -with Tebaldi and with Zylis-Gara)

As to his voice, I've never heard a better self-description than: 'I
am a romantic-heroic tenor' - on one of Stefan Zucker's interviews
some fourteen years ago.
Post by Samurai
as Domingo never got
around to singing Tristan >on stage.
True, but he has become my favorite Lohengrin, next to Konya! The
latter, much-admired, was a true spinto, able to take on some lyric
rep as well, such as Rodolfo and Romeo (in excerpts, at least).

Domingo is, of course, opera's alltime Renaissance Man -'doing it all'
from Almaviva (Rossini) to Simone B.(!). As to predictions of his
getting to 'Sparafucile' and 'Fiesco' - hey, why not! :)))
Post by Samurai
Samurai
Best,
LT
The Handelmaniac
2008-08-21 23:35:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by LT
Post by Samurai
Leonard,
To me Corelli is a clear example of a spinto. �He had a big, heavy,
powerful voice but it was not really dark or baritonal--not even as
dark as Bergonzi's.
Then, of course, Bergonzi's early-career was as a baritone. Still, to
me, his voice sounded much 'lighter' than Corelli's - and not only in
magnitude.
In this regard, we're defining 'dramatic' in terms of baritonal
quality ('dark tone'), as much or more than by the voice's volume/
weight. I'd previously considered this as applying more to 'Heroic'
than to 'dramatic' tenors.
Post by Samurai
He liked to sing Boheme and Romeo but his main rep
included Don Carlo, Tosca, �Aida, Turandot, and the like. �He could
have sung Otello but didn't >get around to it
How I wish he did!!! Luckily, there are those three excerpts he left
(four, if we count both his duets -with Tebaldi and with Zylis-Gara)
As to his voice, I've never heard a better self-description than: 'I
am a romantic-heroic tenor' - on one of Stefan Zucker's interviews
some fourteen years ago.
Post by Samurai
as Domingo never got
around to singing Tristan >on stage.
True, but he has become my favorite Lohengrin, next to Konya! The
latter, much-admired, was a true spinto, able to take on some lyric
rep as well, such as Rodolfo and Romeo (in excerpts, at least).
Domingo is, of course, opera's alltime Renaissance Man -'doing it all'
from Almaviva (Rossini) to Simone B.(!). �As to predictions of his
getting to 'Sparafucile' and 'Fiesco' - hey, why not! :)))
Post by Samurai
Samurai
Best,
LT
Given the number of tenors who "crossed over" in the repertory, I have
trouble categorizing them..except that a Florez and a Corelli are
rather distinct.

The thrill of a Tucker or a Caruso being able to sing light music and
heavy music with equal success is a fabulous trait.(Bergonzi could do
it too.)
How many tenors can perfoma a Nemorino and a Radames (Caruso/
Bergonzi)]
or a Cosi and a Juive (Tucker)?
Yes, Corelli and Del Monaco sound rather "heavy-handed' in
some "lighter roles, " but remember Martinelli, Lauri-Volpi, etc. sang
the entire gamut of roles.....it depends I guess on the technical
abilities.
Carreras and Di Stefano (and i hope NOT Villazon) made serious errors
in their choice of repertory as we know.
It is so difficult to categorize so many tenors as to reeprtory.
Charlie
LT
2008-08-22 02:06:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Handelmaniac
Post by LT
Post by Samurai
Leonard,
To me Corelli is a clear example of a spinto. He had a big, heavy,
powerful voice but it was not really dark or baritonal--not even as
dark as Bergonzi's.
Then, of course, Bergonzi's early-career was as a baritone. Still, to
me, his voice sounded much 'lighter' than Corelli's - and not only in
magnitude.
In this regard, we're defining 'dramatic' in terms of baritonal
quality ('dark tone'), as much or more than by the voice's volume/
weight. I'd previously considered this as applying more to 'Heroic'
than to 'dramatic' tenors.
Post by Samurai
He liked to sing Boheme and Romeo but his main rep
included Don Carlo, Tosca, Aida, Turandot, and the like. He could
have sung Otello but didn't >get around to it
How I wish he did!!! Luckily, there are those three excerpts he left
(four, if we count both his duets -with Tebaldi and with Zylis-Gara)
As to his voice, I've never heard a better self-description than: 'I
am a romantic-heroic tenor' - on one of Stefan Zucker's interviews
some fourteen years ago.
Post by Samurai
as Domingo never got
around to singing Tristan >on stage.
True, but he has become my favorite Lohengrin, next to Konya! The
latter, much-admired, was a true spinto, able to take on some lyric
rep as well, such as Rodolfo and Romeo (in excerpts, at least).
Domingo is, of course, opera's alltime Renaissance Man -'doing it all'
from Almaviva (Rossini) to Simone B.(!). As to predictions of his
getting to 'Sparafucile' and 'Fiesco' - hey, why not! :)))
Post by Samurai
Samurai
Best,
LT
---------------------------
Post by The Handelmaniac
Given the number of tenors who "crossed over" in the repertory, I have
trouble categorizing them.
Yes, categorizing nowadays is more difficult than in years before;
This also imparts new meaning to 'crossover'.
Post by The Handelmaniac
except that a Florez and a Corelli are
rather distinct.
Even the newest newbie'd notice that, I think.
Post by The Handelmaniac
The thrill of a Tucker or a Caruso being able to sing light music and
heavy music with equal success is a fabulous trait.(Bergonzi could do
it too.)
  How many tenors can perfoma a Nemorino and a Radames (Caruso/
Bergonzi)]
or a Cosi and a Juive (Tucker)?
I'm surprised that a certain Renaissance Man of Tenori hasn't played
the role, yet (though he did record the aria, IIRC).
Post by The Handelmaniac
          Yes, Corelli and Del Monaco sound rather "heavy-handed' in
some "lighter roles, " but remember Martinelli, Lauri-Volpi, etc. sang
the entire gamut of roles.....it depends I guess on the technical
abilities.
Speaking of which, did GLV ever sing Arturo? I know he recorded a
magnificent 'A te, o Cara'.
Post by The Handelmaniac
Carreras and Di Stefano (and i hope NOT Villazon) made serious errors
in their choice of repertory as we know.
   It is so difficult to categorize so many tenors as >to repertory.
Especially when they choose and not always UNwisely, to diversify so
much!
Post by The Handelmaniac
Charlie- Hide quoted text -
Best,
LT
Post by The Handelmaniac
- Show quoted text -
Opera Forever
2008-08-22 01:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by LT
In this regard, we're defining 'dramatic' in terms of baritonal
quality ('dark tone'), as much or more than by the voice's volume/
weight.>
I don't get this. Could you elaborate please?
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