Deanna Durbin Underestimated by Eric Myers/OPERA NEWS?

[Kultur]

I was reading an OPERA NEWS magazine from a couple of years ago that
had an article/interview by Brian Kellow on popular movie sopranos
Kathryn Grayson, Jane Powell and Ann Blyth. Although Kellow's
commentary on each of these talented singers included some slight
reservations (e.g., he noted of Grayson's vocalism: "She was a high,
high coloratura--the Mado Robin of the movies--with a distinctively
chirpy timbre that was at times quite impressive and at others slightly
unnerving" ), he was generally highly admiring of the work and talents
of all three ladies, lauding Blyth's lyric soprano as "perhaps the most
naturally beautiful instrument" of the three, and praising Powell as
"an uncommonly bright singer whose interpretations were deeply felt."

The same magazine also included a separate sidebar "salute" titled
"Universal Appeal" by frequent OPERA NEWS contributor Eric Myers on
Deanna Durbin, the first, most popular, most critically admired of
filmdom's "Teen Sopranos."

Although Myers was readily appreciative of Durbin's popularity both in
her screen heyday and in succeeding decades (e.g., "The little girl
with the voice of a grown woman instantly captured the public's fancy,
and she remains so beloved that the fan clubs, websites and newsletters
devoted to her are too numerous to count."), he asserted that her great
poularity had little, if anything, to do with her either the quality of
her voice or her abilities as a singer/actress, seemingly finding her
considerable lack of ability/talent in both areas to be debits rather
than assets in her success:

<<What made Durbin special? The truth was, she wasn't so special.
Although trained by former Met bass Andres de Segurola, she didn't
possess the kind of vocal talent that could have launched her on a
major opera career. Her soprano, light but full, was pretty and evenly
produced without being particularly distinctive. Her interpretive
abilities tended to skim the surface--but then, she was rarely asked to
sing anything much heavier than "II Bacio" or Gounod's Ave Maria. Her
acting skills were little more than passable.>>

Rather, Myers ascribed Durbin's success solely to her considerable, and
uninquely charismatic screen presence:

<<It was really the ordinary, attractive girlishness she displayed that
won hearts all around. That quality even got her a special Academy
Award, shared in 1938 with Mickey Rooney, "for bringing to the screen
the spirit and personification of youth, and as juvenile players
setting a high standard of ability and achievement." As Durbin matured,
the attractiveness became something more. With her full lips,
voluptuous physique and caressing, dreamy way of focusing on her male
co-stars, she projected an eroticism that is rarely acknowledged by her
fans. Nowhere was this more evident than in 1944's Christmas Holiday,
her most atypical effort, in which she played a hooker in a New Orleans
cathouse. It was her sole dramatic role, and one of her own favorites.
(Durbin's beauty was also on full, flamboyant display in Can't Help
Singing, in which she got to take a bubble bath in glorious
Technicolor.)>>

In what is nominally labeled a "Salute" to Durbin, Myers' appraisal of
Durbin's talents (or lack of them as the case may be) strikes me as
fairly damming, especially considering that the periodical in which it
was published is devoted to celebrating and perpetuating the best in
operatic/classical singing traditions and talent.

Has anyone else ever read this piece, or have an opinion on Myers'
assessment of Durbin's talents, pro or con?

[a***@hotmail.com]

No; I've never heard one of her movies.

I just think of Cole Porter's lines:
"I used to have such suburban ideals --
You know what I mean -- Deanna Durbin ideals --"

But I found VIrginia Grayson possibly the most offensive star Hollywood
ever shoved in my face. She ruined every movie I ever had to endure her
in. I'll never forgive her for Kiss Me, Kate.

Hans Lick

[Kultur]

Although I think she deserves all due credit for being an asset to MGM
for over a decade, from what I've seen of the commentary on her work,
Kathryn Grayson's vocalism is perhaps the most controversial of any
movie soprano

While William Warfield and many others have praised her thorough
professionalism and charming demeanor on movie sets, the commentary on
her vocalism is often unflattering. Although I'm no fan of Mario
Lanza's, an excerpt on Grayson's singing in the Lanza biography, MARIO
LANZA: TENOR IN EXILE, is typical of much of the commentary on
Grayson's vocalism:

<<�Grayson, no operatic soprano, was a detriment to Lanza musically.
In the duet of Lucia di Lammermoor, she sang her solo portion without
distinction. Lanza joined the performance on cue and sang his solo
segment beautifully, the diction, spacing and pressentation all
excellent. Then their duet began. As usual when she approached a duet
with Lanza, Grayson did not keep to the form of the music or work with
her partner to produce a pleasant union of harmony and sound. Instead,
she pitched upward, where no tenor should follow. Mario knew how
things should be done but permitted filmdom to lead him astray, into
singing that was distorted and unfocused>>

Nevertheless, to give Grayson her due, she did receive a very admiring
write-up in the GROVE DICTIONARY OF MUSIC:

<<Grayson was acknowledged by her contemporaries as a very fine
legitimate soprano. She sang very easily with a minnium of facial
distortion, a quality essential to the film medium. The lack of
physical tension in her singing is a hallmark quality of her
technique.>>

Of course, like all movie singers of that era, Grayson's vocals were
pre-recorded, but although I think she was a beautiful woman, I would
disagree with the writer's comment that Grayson's (onscreen) singing
was characterized by a minimum of facial distortion. In her "audition"
scence for Jose Iturbi in 1945's ANCHOR'S AWEIGH, for example, Grayson
seems quite uncomfortable to me. She maintains a frozen-smile demeanor
on her face while, with her bobbing head, she appears to be literally
counting the beats in her song/aria, and possibly to be too focused on
instructions she may be receiving from an offscreen director or other
movie technician.

I had a similar response to her (to me) somewhat awkward performance
of the "Bell Song" from LAKME in 1947's IT HAPPENED IN BROOKLYN.
Although I don't think Grayson was an egocentric singer, unlike
Durbin's pure lyric soprano, Grayson's voice, like those some of the
other movie sopranos, does not strike me as an innately warm sound.
She could certainly suggest warmth when the situation called for it, as
in her ballad singing of numbers like "All of a Sudden My Heart Sings"
and "Time After Time", but her vibrato-laden, high-pitched, florid
coloratura style seemed to go against the grain of the spontaneity and
artless ease that was a hallmark of Durbin's impulsive "Little Miss
Fixit" screen persona. I refer to this vibrato-laden somewhat arch
singing style as the "Frilly Chillies."

Also, while I have seen highly admiring commentary on Durbin's
voice/vocalism from some very notable singers and musicians such as
Elly Ameling, Grace Moore, Lawrence Tibbett, Leopold Stokowski,
Mstislav Rostropovich and Mel Torme, based on my own experience, I can
find very little comparable praise for Grayson's singing from her
musical contemporaries like her ANCHORS AWEIGH co-star, Jose Iturbi.

Stil, once again, to give Grayson her due, early in her MGM tenure, she
reportedly did receive an offer from Met General Manager Edward Johnson
to sing LUCIA at the Met. Although she desperately wanted a career in
opera, reportedly MGM czar Louis B. Mayer wouldn't release Grayson from
her studio contract to fulfill this engagement, and Johnson eventually
staged the production with Met soprano Patrice Munsel.

[Ronsdivas]

Post by a***@hotmail.com
But I found VIrginia Grayson

Her name was Kathryn.

[Allen]

Post by a***@hotmail.com
No; I've never heard one of her movies.
"I used to have such suburban ideals --
You know what I mean -- Deanna Durbin ideals --"
But I found VIrginia Grayson possibly the most offensive star Hollywood
ever shoved in my face. She ruined every movie I ever had to endure her
in. I'll never forgive her for Kiss Me, Kate.
Hans Lick

Her star power went before her, so to speak. \
Allen

[Kultur]

But in Grayson's case, perhaps not too steadily. According to Robert
Osborne, Durbin was producer Jack Cummings' first choice to play the
female lead in the film version of KISS ME KATE, and he only offered it
to Grayson after Durbin turned him down. Personally, I'm glad that
Kathryn got to play the role since I consider KATE both her best film
and best performance, though, as a fan of Durbin's I would have enjoyed
seeing her in a top flight MGM musical production.

Another factor Myers fails to consider in ascribing all of Durbin's
success to her onscreen presence and beauty (both of which she
certainly had) and dismissing Durbin's voice as not "being particularly
distinctive" is that Durbin became a sensation on radio even before her
first film, THREE SMART GIRLS, debuted, despite the fact that, as one
commentator put it, "her sparkle and personality had to be conveyed by
her voice alone."

When Durbin made her debut as a featured member of Eddie Cantor's
TEXACO TOWN radio show on September 21, 1936, Cantor's "failure" to
introduce her by her full name resulted in CBS's receiving 5,000
letters from listeners eager to know more about her. Durbin's radio
success was so immediate, that by the time THREE SMART GIRLS premiered
in January 1937, Universal was able to advertise the film as "Film
Debut of Deanna Durbin. Radio's Sensational Songbird!" By July 1937,
Durbin had won the RADIO GUIDE "Newcomer of the Year" Award with an
astounding 5,000,000 votes. Such was her success that, following the
completion of her tenure with Cantor, CBS reportedly offered Durbin her
own radio program, which she turned down either because she could not
fit such a commitment into her already overcrowded schedule.

In any case, Porter's citing Durbin in the lyrics of one of his songs
is certainly ample evidence of her star power at the time.

[Mitchell Kaufman]

Personally, I'm glad that Kathryn got to play the role since I consider
KATE both her best film and best performance

It is. She's cast against type: bitchy fireball ("Kate") vs. sweet,
chirpy ingenue (everything else). Based on her performance in Kate, she
seems to have had a far greater range in terms of acting and singing
than MGM ever really exploited satisfactorily.

MK

[Kultur]

Although I do think some of Kathryn's arch qualities are evident in
KATE, I do enjoy this performance, and, as I said,I think it's her
best. I also think that the genial, swaggering and much underrated
Howard Keel, with his huge warm natural baritone voice, was Kathryn's
best onscreen partner. Although Keel himself apparently preferred his
work in SEVEN BRIDES FOR SEVEN BROTHERS (which was also excellent), a
strong argument can be made that the role of the posturing, egocentric
yet likable "Fred Graham/Petruchio" represents his best screen work
too.

On the other hand, while Kathryn's performance in KATE may indicate a
potential suitability for roles which MGM failed to exploit, in the
roles the studio DID fashion for her (i.e., the singing sweetheart), I
feel that she consistently demonstrated she was, at best, despite her
pretty and wholesome appearance and demure vocal talents, an average
ingenue actress/personality at best.

Although she was consistently cast in "Durbin-esque"/"Fixit" films like
ANCHORS AWEIGH, TWO SISTERS FROM BOSTON, and IT HAPPENED IN BROOKLYN,
in all of these films her status is that of a "leading lady" while her
more popular (and seemingly more comedically appealing/gifted)
co-stars, Kelly, Sinatra, Allyson, Durante, etc. perform the "Little
Miss (or "Mr. as the case may be) function that Durbin first
popularized in films like THREE SMART GIRLS, ONE HUNDRED MEN AND A GIRL
and MAD ABOUT MUSIC.

All of these MGM productions essentially purloin the plot hook of
Durbi's 100 MEN AND A GIRL, in which a "nobody" (Durbin) attempts to
persuade a celebrity (Stokowski) to conduct an orchestra of jobless
musicians including her trombone playing father, Adolph Menjou. In
ANCHORS AWEIGH, for example, Kathryn Grayson is cast in the role of a
"nobody", aspiring singer and movie extra "Susan Abbott", seeking a
much-sought after audition with famous musician Jose Iturbi.

However, in AHCHORS AWEIGH, despite the gender switch, it's sailors on
leave Kelly and Sinatra who fill the "Fixit" Durbin role of nobodies
frantically attempting to arrange the audition with Iturbi on Grayson's
behalf while Kathryn frets prettily on the sidelines. Despite her
similarly precocious opeatic voice/talents, unlike Durbin, whose
sparkle, comedic panache and nasceant dramatic talents form the locus
of 100 MEN, Grayson, in effect is cast in the "Adolph Mejou" role in
ANCHORS AWEIGH.

This is equally true of her role as "High C Susie" in 1946's TWO
SISTERS FROM BOSTON. Although nominally top-billed in thi enjoyable
black and white MGM confection, it's second and third-billed June
Allyson and Jimmy Durante who provide the comedic "Fixit" aspects in
this tale of how Grayson attempts to deceive her visiting snobbish
Boston relatives into believing that she is a star at the Metropolitan
opera rather than the star attraction at Durante's bowery saloon.

Not only does Durante, rather than Grayson, finagle her "appearance" at
the Met by strongarming confused star tenor Lauritz Melchior, but it's
Allyson who takes Grayson's place at Durante's saloon so that she can
appear. It's also Allyson who 'fesses up to the family of being the
"infamous" "High C Susie" so that Grayson can realize her operatic
ambitions. Finally, it's Allyson, opposite scion and opera patron Peter
Lawford who supplies the comic romantic elements of the piece, as she
attempts to woo (or be wooed) by Lawford despite her "scandalous"
profession.

Although Grayson has a couple of enjoyable moments popping out of the
Met chorus to improvise some cadenzas to the fury of Melchior, her
role, despite her top billing, ie essentially a passive and supporting
one. In a film/role that undoubtedly would have placed Durbin (or, in a
pop context, Garland) center stage for the comedic, dramatic, romantic
elements, Kathryn, more than five years after her initial signing by
Metro, is still playing suporting roles.

TWO SISTERS is perhaps especially significant in this regard since it
was produced and directed by Joe Pasternak and Henry Koster, the team
that had been responsible for Durbin's initial screen successes and for
the initial crafting of her wildly popular "Little Miss Fixit" screen
image. The fact that Pasternak and Koster reduced Kathryn's role to
such an extent in a very "Durbin-esque" piece, strongly indicates that
they had serious reservations that her primer and more staild singing
and acting personality could project the recklessness, spontaneity and
charm that the "Little Miss Fixit" image required and that both Durbin
and Garland managed to do so effortlessly.

Still, once again, to give Kathryn her due, if she had a somewhat
lacklustre screen career compared to those of other musical ingenues
like Durbin, Garland, Jane Powell, etc., she did, on at least one
occasion, fulfill her desire for greater a (non-musical) acting
challenge. Although I have not seen the production, during the 1950s,
Kathryn appeared on a segment of the anthology series, GENERAL ELECTRIC
THEATER and scored an Emmy nomination for her work. I understand, she
has also enjoyed some success in some non-musical stage work following
her departure from MGM.

As I said before, by all accounts, she's a charming and gracious woman
and a thorough professional. She also seems, like most of these "Teen
Sopranos" to have had the sort of strength of character to not only
have survived the tumultuous aspects of a Hollywood career/lifestyle,
but to have found a happy and fulfilled personal life once the movie
cameras stopped turning. I wish her the best.

Incidentally, like Gloria Jean, Kathryn also has her own website that
sells memorabilia from her film career and updates her present
activities. (I believe she's currently teaching Master Classes?). I
think the address is: http://www.kathryngrayson.com if anyone is
interested.

Post by Mitchell Kaufman

Personally, I'm glad that Kathryn got to play the role since I consider
KATE both her best film and best performance

It is. She's cast against type: bitchy fireball ("Kate") vs. sweet,
chirpy ingenue (everything else). Based on her performance in Kate, she
seems to have had a far greater range in terms of acting and singing
than MGM ever really exploited satisfactorily.
MK

[Mitchell Kaufman]

Post by Kultur
Although I do think some of Kathryn's arch qualities are evident in
KATE, I do enjoy this performance, and, as I said,I think it's her
best.

[lots of stuff clipped]

I don't know who you are, but I just wanted to thank you for a couple of
terrific posts. Worth keeping, actually.

MK

[Kultur]

Thank you very much for the compliment! I'm glad you enjoyed my
posts...kinda stunned actually...but pleased!

[Leonard Tillman]

From: ***@aol.com (Kultur)

(Part of excellent post:)

Post by Kultur
Although I do think some of Kathryn's arch
qualities are evident in KATE, I do enjoy this
performance, and, as I said,I think it's her
best. I also think that the genial, swaggering
and much underrated Howard Keel, with his
huge warm natural baritone voice, was
Kathryn's best onscreen partner.

I agree totally, adoring each of the films they teamed in. The magic
they displayed together may be partly explained by their years-later
revelation that they really *were* romantically interested in each
other, back then, but happened to be "unavailable", i.e., involved with
others, at the time.

Thanks for a great article about some great favorites of the genre.

Leonard Tillman

[Kultur]

Hi Leonard:

I'm not surprised that Kathryn and Howard were potential romantic
partners. They've certainly always spoken very warmly of each other
both personally and professionally. I've been thinking that last year
must have been a particularly hard one on Kathryn with the passings of
both Keel and the vivacious Ann Miller. All three of them seemed to
genuinely enjoy and appreciate each other's talents in their joint
screen teamings. I hope she's doing well.

Of Grayson and Keel's three film pairings, I think KISS ME KATE was far
and away their best. I like their chemistry in SH0W BOAT and LOVELY TO
LOOK AT, but, for me, the former is marred by the superficial "style
over substance" glossy approach MGM's Freed Unit often took when
adpating Broadway shows to film, while the latter is a genial "B"
effort from Metro with some enjoyable elements that don't quite gel
into a cohesive whole. Still, I think LOVELY contains one of Kathryn's
best musical moments, her beautifully judged and sensitive rendition of
Kern & Hammerstein's lovely "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes." I also like
Keel's "surround sound" rendition of the title song (harmonized with
several mirror images of himself.)

Atter KATE'S success, MGM was reportedly so pleased with Kathryn's work
that they announced her for the female lead in BRIGADOON as well as
musical versions of CAMILE and TRILBY, but apparently the studio
ultimately made the decision to stick to its' policy of retrenchment
where musicals were concerned, and reneged on plans to proceed with
these projects.

Like her MGM contemporaries, Jane Powell and Ann Blyth, following her
departure from Metro, Kathryn went on to ind success in "live"
performance venues such as cabaret, Broadway (she replaced Julie
Andrews in the original run in CAMELOT),and regional theater/opera.

I don't mean this as a slight against any of these talented ladies,
but, whatever Myers' dismissive attitude toward Durbin's
talents/potential for operatic success aside, it is interesting to note
that, following the collapse of the studio system, Deanna was the only
"Teen Soprano" who was actively pursued to resume her film career
and/or to branch out into "live" performance venues.

Her old producer Joe Pasternak, for example, pursued her for over
twenty years following her retirement to make a screen comeback, but
was politely rebuffed each time. Among the projects he envisioned for
her was a screen version of LA BOHEME. He also was eager to team her
with Judy Garland in a Metro musical and repeatedly attempted to borrow
her from Universal, which adamantly refused to loan her out.

L.B. Mayer and MGM reportedly also wanted her badly for co-starring
roles opposite Mario Lanza and other projects, as did Bing Crosby for
his romantic lead in TOP'O THE MORNING (which Ann Blyth did) and A
CONNECTICUT YANKEE IN KING ARTHUR'S COURT (which, ironically was (very
well) done by Rhonda Flemming who later recalled Durbin as "her idol"
and said that she began her film career when an agent approached while
she was still in high school because of her resemblance to Deanna), and
Alan Jay Lerner personally offered her the opportunity to originate the
role of "Eliza Doolittle" in the original Broadway production of MY
FAIR LADY.

Deanna later stated that this post-retirement offer was the only one
she received that seriously tested her resolve to remain retired. The
show was still in an embyryonic stage at the time with only a few songs
completed, but Lerner went so far as to come to Deanna's home to
audition the songs for her in person.She later recalled,"I loved them,
but I had my ticket to Paris in my pocket and anyway, Julie Andrews was
great, and so was Audrey Hepburn in the film."

[Leonard Tillman]

Group: rec.music.opera Date: Fri, Feb 4, 2005, 5:58am (EST-3)

Post by Kultur
I'm not surprised that Kathryn and Howard
were potential romantic partners. They've
certainly always spoken very warmly of each
other both personally and professionally. I've
been thinking that last year must have been a
particularly hard one on Kathryn with the
passings of both Keel and the vivacious Ann
Miller. All three of them seemed to genuinely
enjoy and appreciate each other's talents in
their joint screen teamings. I hope she's doing
well.

I had the same feeling about Giuseppe Di Stefano and what must've been
his reactions upon learning of his longtime colleagues, Renata Tebaldi's
and Victoria de los Angeles' recent deaths, -- these losses in addition
to his own personal ordeals of late.

In just five days, Kathryn turns eighty-three
(- about the same age as Di.Stefano).

Post by Kultur
Of Grayson and Keel's three film pairings, I
think KISS ME KATE was far and away their
best. I like their chemistry in SH0W BOAT
and LOVELY TO LOOK AT,

The first two are everlastingly popular, and still shown on PBS from
time to time, -- fortunately, -- since younger viewers might otherwise
never get to see these unbeatable films.

In the Kern biopic, "Till the Clouds Roll By", Grayson was "Magnolia" in
a sequence, - thus providing a sort of preview of the same role she was
to play in "Show Boat" soon afterward.

Post by Kultur
[....] Still, I think LOVELY contains one of

Kathryn's best musical moments, her

beautifully judged and sensitive rendition of
Kern & Hammerstein's lovely "Smoke Gets In
Your Eyes." I also like Keel's "surround
sound" rendition of the title song (harmonized
with several mirror images of himself.)

Yes, these scenes are what I remember best from "Lovely"! Got to see it
again.

Post by Kultur
Atter KATE'S success, MGM was reportedly
so pleased with Kathryn's work that they
announced her for the female lead in
BRIGADOON as well as musical versions of
CAMILE and TRILBY, but apparently the
studio ultimately made the decision to stick to
its' policy of retrenchment where musicals
were concerned, and reneged on plans to
proceed with these projects.

I'd have been particularly interested to have seen this "Camille"! What
musical source would've been used? Or would it have been an entirely
original score?

Post by Kultur
Like her MGM contemporaries, Jane Powell
and Ann Blyth, following her departure from
Metro, Kathryn went on to ind success in "live"
performance venues such as cabaret,
Broadway (she replaced Julie Andrews in the
original run in CAMELOT),and regional
theater/opera.

In "Camelot", was her Guenevere played opposite Robert Goulet and
Richard Burton?

A co-star of theirs, the *greatly* talented (but alas, ill-fated) Bruce
Yarnell, a true Howard Keel/Ray Middleton type, was an earlier choice
for Lancelot, IIRC, but, at 6' 4" tall, was "nixed" by Burton (5' 10"),
who objected to having a fellow male-lead "tower over him", - so Goulet,
also splendid, and closer to RB's height, got the break, with Big Bruce
playing Sir Dinadon - his voice being heard on the OBC album, singing
"Guenevere" so magnificently, near the Finale.

You also mentioned a proposed screen version of "La Boheme"....making me
wonder which great stars of the Opera world might have partnered her,
had this film ever come about?.

Perhaps....Lanza -- Rodolfo, Merrill -- Marcello, Lucine Amara --
Musetta, Baccaloni -- Alcindoro/Benoit, and as Colline, Siepi, Tozzi,
Hines, -- or even the King of the Bassos, himself, Ezio Pinza, yet in
films at the time (?).

Post by Kultur
L.B. Mayer and MGM reportedly also wanted
her badly for co-starring roles opposite Mario
Lanza and other projects, as did Bing Crosby
for his romantic lead in TOP'O THE
MORNING (which Ann Blyth did) and A
CONNECTICUT YANKEE IN KING
ARTHUR'S COURT (which, ironically was
(very well) done by Rhonda Flemming who
later recalled Durbin as "her idol" and said
that she began her film career when an agent
approached while she was still in high school
because of her resemblance to Deanna),

"Connecticut Yankee" was great, featuring enjoyable performances by
William Bendix as Sir Sagramore, Sir (another Knight!) Cedric Hardwicke
as King Arthur (VERY different portrayal, from those of Burton, Harris,
and Laurence Harvey's!), with Merlin played (as a villain) by Murvyn
Vye, whose enormous, Giulio Neri-esque basso voice was, unfortunately,
given no songs to sing.

Post by Kultur
and Alan Jay Lerner personally offered her
the opportunity to originate the role of "Eliza
Doolittle" in the original Broadway production
of MY FAIR LADY.
Deanna later stated that this post-retirement
offer was the only one she received that
seriously tested her resolve to remain retired.
The show was still in an embyryonic stage at
the time with only a few songs completed, but
Lerner went so far as to come to Deanna's
home to audition the songs for her in
person.She later recalled,"I loved them, but I
had my ticket to Paris in my pocket and
anyway, Julie Andrews was great, and so
was Audrey Hepburn in the film."

-As was Marni Nixon's wonderful soprano voice, dubbing for Hepburn with
distinction, as she'd made a career of doing for numerous other
movie-musical actresses .

Leonard Tillman

[Kultur]

Post by Leonard Tillman
Group: rec.music.opera Date: Fri, Feb 4, 2005, 5:58am (EST-3)
I had the same feeling about Giuseppe Di Stefano and what must've been
his reactions upon learning of his longtime colleagues, Renata

Tebaldi's

Post by Leonard Tillman
and Victoria de los Angeles' recent deaths, -- these losses in

addition

Post by Leonard Tillman
to his own personal ordeals of late.
In just five days, Kathryn turns eighty-three
(- about the same age as Di.Stefano).

Isn't it terrible how many glorious operatic voices were stilled this
year? (Not that they weren't retired anyway, I guess.) You can also add
Robert Merrill and Franco Corelli to the list. The Heavenly Choir must
really sound sensational these days!

Post by Leonard Tillman
Yes, these scenes are what I remember best from "Lovely"! Got to see it
again.

It's not singing, of course, but I also recall Marge & Gower Champion's
excellent dance to "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" following Kathryn's vocal,
not to mention Ann Miller's zippy "I'll Be Hard To Handle." It may be a
Metro "B", but it's an enjoyable B!

Post by Leonard Tillman
I'd have been particularly interested to have seen this "Camille"!

What

Post by Leonard Tillman
musical source would've been used? Or would it have been an entirely
original score?

I was intrigued by the prospect of that musical CAMILLE too.
Unfortunately, I don't know any details of what sort of music would
have been in it, only that it was a project that was considered for KG.
Certainly if they did go to the original Verdi source, I think it would
have suited Kathryn well, both physically and vocally.

Post by Leonard Tillman
In "Camelot", was her Guenevere played opposite Robert Goulet and
Richard Burton?

I'm pretty sure that Arthur was played by Louis Hayward, but I don't
recall whether Goulet appeared in the production at that time or not. I
recall checking the NY TIMES list of theater reviews for CAMELOT, but
the paper apparently didn't review the production in which she
appeared.

Post by Leonard Tillman
A co-star of theirs, the *greatly* talented (but alas, ill-fated) Bruce
Yarnell, a true Howard Keel/Ray Middleton type, was an earlier choice
for Lancelot, IIRC, but, at 6' 4" tall, was "nixed" by Burton (5' 10"),
who objected to having a fellow male-lead "tower over him", - so Goulet,
also splendid, and closer to RB's height, got the break, with Big Bruce
playing Sir Dinadon - his voice being heard on the OBC album, singing
"Guenevere" so magnificently, near the Finale.

Yarnell was a marvelous singer. Very much in the Keel/Middleton mold. I
always liked his performance as Frank Butler opposite the formidible
Merman in the OCR of the 1966 revival of ANNIE GET YOUR GUN.

Post by Leonard Tillman
You also mentioned a proposed screen version of "La Boheme"....making me
wonder which great stars of the Opera world might have partnered her,
had this film ever come about?.
Perhaps....Lanza -- Rodolfo, Merrill -- Marcello, Lucine Amara --
Musetta, Baccaloni -- Alcindoro/Benoit, and as Colline, Siepi, Tozzi,
Hines, -- or even the King of the Bassos, himself, Ezio Pinza, yet in
films at the time (?).

There were no details of other cast members in the blurb I saw re the
proposed film version of BOHEME. Only a comment by Joe Pasternak that
he was attempting to get Deanna to sign on for the project. I do think
she would have made an enchanting Mimi, both vocally and physically,
and it sounds like you've alrready picked out a great cast to support
her. Too bad you weren't around at the time! Of course, another
possibility would be that they'd assign non-singing actors in the roles
and dub them, but personally I would have hoped they'd go for the real
thing.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Kultur
L.B. Mayer and MGM reportedly also wanted
her badly for co-starring roles opposite Mario
Lanza and other projects, as did Bing Crosby
for his romantic lead in TOP'O THE
MORNING (which Ann Blyth did) and A
CONNECTICUT YANKEE IN KING
ARTHUR'S COURT (which, ironically was
(very well) done by Rhonda Flemming who
later recalled Durbin as "her idol" and said
that she began her film career when an agent
approached while she was still in high school
because of her resemblance to Deanna),

"Connecticut Yankee" was great, featuring enjoyable performances by
William Bendix as Sir Sagramore, Sir (another Knight!) Cedric

Hardwicke

Post by Leonard Tillman
as King Arthur (VERY different portrayal, from those of Burton, Harris,
and Laurence Harvey's!), with Merlin played (as a villain) by Murvyn
Vye, whose enormous, Giulio Neri-esque basso voice was,

unfortunately,

Post by Leonard Tillman
given no songs to sing.

And Rhonda Flemming was a lovely "Sandy." It's a shame she didn't get
to sing more in her films, but she certainly couldn't have pickedd a
better model to emulate than Durbin, in my opinion. It is strange that
they didn't give Vye something to sing in the film, isn't it?

Post by Leonard Tillman
-As was Marni Nixon's wonderful soprano voice, dubbing for Hepburn with
distinction, as she'd made a career of doing for numerous other
movie-musical actresses .

Actually, although I think she was a wonderfully talented vocal double
(as she proved time and again with a variety of different
actresses/voices, I found Nixon's too bright, monochromatic and elegant
soprano too refined for the "flower girl" Eliza. She's well-suited to
the part from "The Rain in Spain" on, but in the earlier songs, she's
simply too placid and serene vocally for my taste. I'll readily admit
though that it's a difficult role for a singer to pull off because of
these two extremes,and Nixon did an honorable job of it.

[Leonard Tillman]

Group: rec.music.opera Date: Fri, Feb 4, 2005, 5:58am (EST-3)

"I had the same feeling about Giuseppe Di Stefano and what must've been
his reactions upon learning of his longtime colleagues, Renata Tebaldi's
and Victoria de los Angeles' recent deaths, -- these losses in addition
to his own personal ordeals of late.

"In just five days, Kathryn turns eighty-three (- about the same age as
Di.Stefano). "

Post by Kultur
Isn't it terrible how many glorious operatic
voices were stilled this year? (Not that they
weren't retired anyway, I guess.) You can
also add Robert Merrill and Franco Corelli to
the list.

Along with Campora, Ghiaurov, and going back a bit before, - Jerome
Hines and his wife, Lucia Evangelista, also an opera singer.

Post by Kultur
The Heavenly Choir must really sound
sensational these days!

That Choir improves perpetually, while - as some feel - the quality of
singing here on Earth retrogresses at that very same pace (- mainly in
regard to the dearth of Dramatic voices among tenors, sopranos and
baritones).

"Yes, these scenes are what I remember best from "Lovely"! Got to see
it again. "

Post by Kultur
It's not singing, of course, but I also recall
Marge & Gower Champion's excellent dance
to "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" following
Kathryn's vocal, not to mention Ann Miller's
zippy "I'll Be Hard To Handle." It may be a
Metro "B", but it's an enjoyable B!

That's one they don't show often enough on the various PBS stations, and
likewise, the similarly-made "Deep in My Heart", the partly
fictionalized biopic about Sigmund Romberg.

"I'd have been particularly interested to have seen this "Camille"! What
musical source would've been used? Or would it have been an entirely
original score? "

Post by Kultur
I was intrigued by the prospect of that musical
CAMILLE too. Unfortunately, I don't know any
details of what sort of music would have been
in it, only that it was a project that was
considered for KG. Certainly if they did go to
the original Verdi source, I think it would have
suited Kathryn well, both physically and
vocally.

Absolutely! - In youth, she had vocal and facial resemblances to Moffo
and today's Netrebko.

"In "Camelot", was her Guenevere played opposite Robert Goulet and
Richard Burton? "

Post by Kultur
I'm pretty sure that Arthur was played by Louis
Hayward,

I could imagine him in the role, - he'd still have been within the right
age-range. As to his singing,I believe Arthur's vocal-qualifications are
less-demanding than Lancelot's.
-- OTOH, in the case of the '93 revival, Goulet, this time as the King,
*vastly* outmatched Steve Blanchard, the Lancelot, - who was certainly
good, -- but nowhere near as spectacular as his co-star was, --then or
before.

Post by Kultur
but I don't recall whether Goulet appeared in
the production at that time or not. I recall
checking the NY TIMES list of theater reviews
for CAMELOT, but the paper apparently didn't
review the production in which she appeared.

I wonder if she appeared in performances with another popular Lancelot
of the time, Jerry Lanning.

"A co-star of theirs, the *greatly* talented (but alas, ill-fated) Bruce
Yarnell, a true Howard Keel/Ray Middleton type, was an earlier choice
for Lancelot, IIRC, but, at 6' 4" tall, was "nixed" by Burton (5' 10"),
who objected to having a fellow male-lead "tower over him", - so Goulet,
also splendid, and closer to RB's height, got the break, with Big Bruce
playing Sir Dinadon - his voice being heard on the OBC album, singing
"Guenevere" so magnificently, near the Finale. "

Post by Kultur
Yarnell was a marvelous singer. Very much in
the Keel/Middleton mold. I always liked his
performance as Frank Butler opposite the
formidible Merman in the OCR of the 1966
revival of ANNIE GET YOUR GUN.

He was my sole reason for getting that album, -as Middleton was, too,
when I bought the OCR LP.

"You also mentioned a proposed screen version of "La Boheme"....making
me wonder which great stars of the Opera world might have partnered her,
had this film ever come about?.

"Perhaps....Lanza -- Rodolfo, Merrill -- Marcello, Lucine Amara --
Musetta, Baccaloni -- Alcindoro/Benoit, and as Colline, Siepi, Tozzi,
Hines, -- or even the King of the Bassos, himself, Ezio Pinza, yet in
films at the time (?). "

Post by Kultur
There were no details of other cast members
in the blurb I saw re the proposed film version
of BOHEME. Only a comment by Joe
Pasternak that he was attempting to get
Deanna to sign on for the project. I do think
she would have made an enchanting Mimi,
both vocally and physically, and it sounds like
you've alrready picked out a great cast to
support her. Too bad you weren't around at
the time!

Probably just as well: I suspect I'd have been difficult, - greedily
appropriating the roles of both Marcello and Colline, as well as
demanding Jane Powell as my Musetta! Were she unavailable, I might've
agreed on Mimi Benzell, or possibly "Genevieve" the '50s Chanteuse
often appearing on Jack Paar's Tonight Show. -- Great Musetta-types,
each of these ladies.

Post by Kultur
Of course, another possibility would be that
they'd assign non-singing actors in the roles
and dub them, but personally I would have
hoped they'd go for the real thing.

Nearly-always preferable. Yet the dubbing option has been popular, even
as recently as the '80s, when filming the Boheme with Luca Canonici, -a
fine tenor himself- acting onscreen as Rodolfo, but dubbed by the
greater voice of Jose Carreras! I suppose JC wasn't free (or
well-enough) to appear in the role himself.

Post by Kultur
L.B. Mayer and MGM reportedly also wanted
her badly for co-starring roles opposite Mario
Lanza and other projects, as did Bing Crosby
for his romantic lead in TOP'O THE
MORNING (which Ann Blyth did) and A
CONNECTICUT YANKEE IN KING
ARTHUR'S COURT (which, ironically was
(very well) done by Rhonda Flemming who
later recalled Durbin as "her idol" and said that
she began her film career when an agent
approached while she was still in high school
because of her resemblance to Deanna),

"Connecticut Yankee" was great, featuring enjoyable performances by
William Bendix as Sir Sagramore, Sir (another Knight!) Cedric Hardwicke
as King Arthur (VERY different portrayal, from those of Burton, Harris,
and Laurence Harvey's!), with Merlin played (as a villain) by Murvyn
Vye, whose enormous, Giulio Neri-esque basso voice was, unfortunately,
given no songs to sing. "

Post by Kultur
And Rhonda Flemming was a lovely "Sandy."
It's a shame she didn't get to sing more in her
films, but she certainly couldn't have pickedd
a better model to emulate than Durbin, in my
opinion. It is strange that they didn't give Vye
something to sing in the film, isn't it?

The two instances in which I heard his great singing voice:
Tthe original Jigger Craigin in Carousel, and as the Gypsy leader,
Zoltan, in the '40s film "Golden Earrings" (with Marlene Dietrich and
Ray Milland), where Vye sang the haunting title-song better than I've
heard from anyone else.

"-As was Marni Nixon's wonderful soprano voice, dubbing for Hepburn with
distinction, as she'd made a career of doing for numerous other
movie-musical actresses . "

Post by Kultur
Actually, although I think she was a
wonderfully talented vocal double (as she
proved time and again with a variety of
different actresses/voices, I found Nixon's too
bright, monochromatic and elegant soprano
too refined for the "flower girl" Eliza. She's
well-suited to the part from "The Rain in
Spain" on, but in the earlier songs, she's
simply too placid and serene vocally for my
taste. I'll readily admit though that it's a
difficult role for a singer to pull off because of
these two extremes,and Nixon did an
honorable job of it.

Another sometimes "easy-going" soprano, stylewise, is Kiri Te Kanawa,
who I thought excellent as Eliza, opposite Jeremy Irons' ideal Higgins!
This is on a CD performance that IMO should've been done as a video (or
now, - DVD).

Best,

Leonard Tillman

[Kultur]

Post by Leonard Tillman
Group: rec.music.opera Date: Fri, Feb 4, 2005, 5:58am (EST-3)

Post by Kultur
The Heavenly Choir must really sound
sensational these days!

That Choir improves perpetually, while - as some feel - the quality of
singing here on Earth retrogresses at that very same pace (- mainly in
regard to the dearth of Dramatic voices among tenors, sopranos and
baritones).

Yes. I don't know that a "dramatic" voice is necessarily required for
some of the heavier roles, but what are generally labeled good "Verdi"
baritones, sopranos and tenors are certainly in short supply these
days. There was seemingly such an abundance of them in the first half
of the twentieth century, one wonders whether the advent and subsequent
impact of rock 'n roll (and rock influenced pop singing) played havoc
with classical vocal traditions and singing.

Back in the day, budding classical singers like Joan Sutherland and
Elly Ameling, among others, could be inspired by Deanna Durbin's
onscreen vocals and DECCA recordings (both have cited Durbin as an
important early influence on their operatic aspirations) not to mention
the work of Powell, Grayson, Moore, MacDonald, Swarthout, etc.,
Aspiring tenors by Mario Lanza, Dennis Morgan, etc. baritones by Keel,
Merrill, Gordon MacRae, etc., but these artists evinced a style of
vocalism that has been largely subsumed in popular culture by the
disposable, "fifteen minutes of fame" melisma-driven, faux emotional,
overwrought stylings of the latest AMERICAN IDOL wannabes. (Not to
mention the melisma-driven, faux emotional, overwrought stylings of the
Whitney Houstons, Celine Dions and Barbra Streisands who influenced
them.)

Incidentally, I mentioned the excellent write-up that Kathryn received
from the GROVE DICTIONARY OF MUSIC a while back, Deanna also received a
fine write-up from GROVE, which referenced her pervasive influence on
subsequent singers:

<<Although [Durbin's] Hollywood career lasted only 13 years, she made a
lasting impression as the quintessential precocious innocent with a
natural vocal charm. She received a special Academy Award in 1938. The
possessor of a legitimate soprano voice with a wide range, Durbin had
the technical ability to use all areas of the voice effectively. She is
a rare example of a singer who was known only for her work in motion
pictures but nonetheless was considered to be a role model for many
young women considering a career on the operatic and concert stages.>>

Post by Leonard Tillman
"Yes, these scenes are what I remember best from "Lovely"! Got to see
it again. "
That's one they don't show often enough on the various PBS stations, and
likewise, the similarly-made "Deep in My Heart", the partly
fictionalized biopic about Sigmund Romberg.

I don't know whether you get the TURNER CLASSIC MOVIES cable channel,
but TCM does show both of these movies at least a few times each year.
It's interesting to see Helen Traubel filling the "Lauritz Melchior"
role of slumming "legit" Met Opera Star in HEART with good humor and
intentions. I also enjoyed Miller's sizzling charleston to "It", the
only onscreen appearance of brothers Fred and Gene Kelly to "I Love To
Go Swimmin' With Women", the "Maytime" medley with Powell and Vic
Damone, and that (for it's time) fairly torrid dance by Cyd Charisse
and James Mitchell. (Oh, and the numbers featuring Jose Ferrer with
then wife Rosemary Clooney and his solo enactment of all the parts in
an operetta were pretty good too.)

Post by Leonard Tillman
"I'd have been particularly interested to have seen this "Camille"! What
musical source would've been used? Or would it have been an entirely
original score? "

Post by Kultur
I was intrigued by the prospect of that musical
CAMILLE too. Unfortunately, I don't know any
details of what sort of music would have been
in it, only that it was a project that was
considered for KG. Certainly if they did go to
the original Verdi source, I think it would have
suited Kathryn well, both physically and
vocally.

Absolutely! - In youth, she had vocal and facial resemblances to Moffo
and today's Netrebko.

Kathryn would certainly have made a beautiful Marguerite. No question.
I suspect that had the project gone forward, Metro would have used the
original Verdi score, though the producers might have commissioned new
English lyrics for the music. It would have saved the studio money in
commissioning a wholly new score, and the familiarity of the Verdi
music would have attracted both opera afficianados and the mildly
curious to see how Metro pulled this version of TRAVIATA off.

Post by Leonard Tillman
"You also mentioned a proposed screen version of "La

Boheme"....making

Post by Leonard Tillman
me wonder which great stars of the Opera world might have partnered her,
had this film ever come about?.
"Perhaps....Lanza -- Rodolfo, Merrill -- Marcello, Lucine Amara --
Musetta, Baccaloni -- Alcindoro/Benoit, and as Colline, Siepi, Tozzi,
Hines, -- or even the King of the Bassos, himself, Ezio Pinza, yet in
films at the time (?). "

Post by Kultur
There were no details of other cast members
in the blurb I saw re the proposed film version
of BOHEME. Only a comment by Joe
Pasternak that he was attempting to get
Deanna to sign on for the project. I do think
she would have made an enchanting Mimi,
both vocally and physically, and it sounds like
you've alrready picked out a great cast to
support her. Too bad you weren't around at
the time!

Probably just as well: I suspect I'd have been difficult, -

greedily

Post by Leonard Tillman
appropriating the roles of both Marcello and Colline, as well as
demanding Jane Powell as my Musetta! Were she unavailable, I

might've

Post by Leonard Tillman
agreed on Mimi Benzell, or possibly "Genevieve" the '50s Chanteuse
often appearing on Jack Paar's Tonight Show. -- Great Musetta-types,
each of these ladies.

I could imagine the unfairly underrated Jane Powell (who, oddly enough,
doesn't even rate an entry in the GROVE DICTIONARY) making a charming
Musetta, and, as she was desperately trying to expand her wholesome
adolescent screen image in the 1950s, she probably would have jumped at
the opportunity to play the role. (Of course, I could also imagine
Deanna Durbin doing quite well in the role if the two switched
parts,though Durbin's fuller creamier tone might have given her the
edge for Mimi.) Patrice Munsel might also have been a very attractive
and suitable Musetta, but as the Beecham BOHEME is my favorite
recording, if they were shooting for real opera singers, I'd probably
want Amara.

You may not be aware that the rights to 1920s torch singer Ruth
Etting's life story were originally purchased by Joe Pasternak as a
film vehicle for Powell after she complained that the studio wouldn't
let her grow up onscreen. Although the role of Etting was subsequently
given to the more popular Doris Day, who made it one of the highlights
of her career, shortly before her death Etting stated that she wished
that Powell had played her onscreen.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Kultur
Of course, another possibility would be that
they'd assign non-singing actors in the roles
and dub them, but personally I would have
hoped they'd go for the real thing.

Nearly-always preferable. Yet the dubbing option has been popular, even
as recently as the '80s, when filming the Boheme with Luca Canonici, -a
fine tenor himself- acting onscreen as Rodolfo, but dubbed by the
greater voice of Jose Carreras! I suppose JC wasn't free (or
well-enough) to appear in the role himself.

I suspect Hollywood might have gone with this dubbing option. Although
MGM did import Dorothy Kirsten and Jarmila Novatna for Lanza's THE
GREAT CARUSO, they often just dubbed experienced film actors in
operatic biographies, as was the case with Eileen Farrell doing an
excellent dubbing job for Eleanor Parker (doing an excellent miming
job) in the Marjorie Lawrence film bio, INTERRUPTED MELODY. An
intersting bit of trivia connected with this film is that Kathryn
Grayson claimed the real-life Marjorie Lawrence vetoed her for the role
because she was "too pretty." Personally, talented vocalist though she
was, I can't imagine Kathryn's florid coloratura being an acceptable
substitute for Lawrence's powerful, voluminous dramatic soprano.

Post by Leonard Tillman
Another sometimes "easy-going" soprano, stylewise, is Kiri Te Kanawa,
who I thought excellent as Eliza, opposite Jeremy Irons' ideal Higgins!
This is on a CD performance that IMO should've been done as a video (or
now, - DVD).

Actually,I've never heard Te Kanawa's version of MY FAIR LADY. I saw
her perform some of the selections from her recording of SOUTH PACIFIC
and thought she was so stupifyingly dreadful and inappropriate as
"Nellie Forbush", both vocally and temperamentally/dramatically, that
it killed any interest I might have had in her pop-singing efforts.
Prior to that horrific experience, I found her Nelson Riddle scored
album of standards BLUE SKIES to be pleasant but bland in the style of
most "legit" sopranos slumming.

My general appraisal is that most opera singers should be given their
due for the genuine affection they have for the classic pop genre, but
they completely lack the sense of style, artlessness and spontaneity
required to be effective in this genre. It's one reason I like Durbin
and Powell so much, because they could sing popular music very
effectively, just as they did their more frequent classical vocals.

Eileen Farrell, of course, was an exception among "opera" singers in
being quite effective in switching vocal gears and styles (despite her
huge voice) between opera and "pop/jazz" with equal ease and
comprehension of the disparate styles, and I thought Robert Merrill and
Elly Ameling were pretty good at it, but most oprea singers "shoulda
stood in bed" rather than attempting forays into the Great American
Songbook genre.

The success of Durbin, Powell, Farrell, Merrill, Dorothy Kirsten and a
few others in the pop genre brings up an interesting point about the
influence of singing for the radio as a pre-requisite for classical
singers tackling the more intimate demands of the Great American
Songbook genre effectively. All three of these vocalists spent a good
deal of their formative years singing on radio, where they undoubtedly
mastered the technique of meeting the more intimate demands of singing
for the microphone which was lost on classical singers of an earlier
generation (e.g., Rosa Ponselle, Lawrence Tibbett, etc.)

Then again, Beverly Sills was, like Durbin and Powell, also a radio
singing child prodigy and she sounds dreadful in the pop genre (e.g.,
her album of operetta favorites with Sherill Milne and Julius Rudell is
a good argument for capital punishment for classical singers who stray
into genres they shouldn't), so who knows?

(Incidentally, not to speak ill of the dead, but Farrell cribbed the
title of her late 1990s memoir CAN'T HELP SINGING from the Jerome
Kern/E.Y.Harburg title song of Deanna Durbin's 1944 Technicolor
starrer. Durbin's performance of this soaring melody is glorious, but,
to the best of my knowledge, it's a song the talented Farrell never
recorded or sang in public.)

[REG]

Just to respond to a part of your earlier question, I know Eric fairly well,
and though I don't agree with some of his assessments on stuff, he's not a
wise guy, and I think means his judgments generally in a sincere way.

As to Grayson, I heard her in the mid to late 70s in a workshop for a Bway
show, and even as a somewhat old broad who was having difficulties in
learning the lyrics, she had one of the absolutely fantastic voices I've
ever heard live. Almost as strong as Merm's, and more ductile, and certainly
she was a much more varied performer. She did lots of stuff in London, and
then had a kind of secondary stage career here after that.

Post by Kultur
But in Grayson's case, perhaps not too steadily. According to Robert
Osborne, Durbin was producer Jack Cummings' first choice to play the
female lead in the film version of KISS ME KATE, and he only offered it
to Grayson after Durbin turned him down. Personally, I'm glad that
Kathryn got to play the role since I consider KATE both her best film
and best performance, though, as a fan of Durbin's I would have enjoyed
seeing her in a top flight MGM musical production.
Another factor Myers fails to consider in ascribing all of Durbin's
success to her onscreen presence and beauty (both of which she
certainly had) and dismissing Durbin's voice as not "being particularly
distinctive" is that Durbin became a sensation on radio even before her
first film, THREE SMART GIRLS, debuted, despite the fact that, as one
commentator put it, "her sparkle and personality had to be conveyed by
her voice alone."
When Durbin made her debut as a featured member of Eddie Cantor's
TEXACO TOWN radio show on September 21, 1936, Cantor's "failure" to
introduce her by her full name resulted in CBS's receiving 5,000
letters from listeners eager to know more about her. Durbin's radio
success was so immediate, that by the time THREE SMART GIRLS premiered
in January 1937, Universal was able to advertise the film as "Film
Debut of Deanna Durbin. Radio's Sensational Songbird!" By July 1937,
Durbin had won the RADIO GUIDE "Newcomer of the Year" Award with an
astounding 5,000,000 votes. Such was her success that, following the
completion of her tenure with Cantor, CBS reportedly offered Durbin her
own radio program, which she turned down either because she could not
fit such a commitment into her already overcrowded schedule.
In any case, Porter's citing Durbin in the lyrics of one of his songs
is certainly ample evidence of her star power at the time.

[Kultur]

Just for the record, I didn't mean to imply that I thought Myers was
being insincere in his appraisal of Durbin's talents/success, and
apologize if my post inferred that in any way. Rather, I intended to
imply that in his superficial appraisal of Durbin's talens and career,
he failed to do her justice as either a singer or an actress, not to
mention ignoring the impact she had in introducing many, many people to
the pleasures of clasical music and singing who otherwise would not
have given it a second glance/listen.

I've little doubt that Myers was sincere in his appraisal, however, I
suspect from the nature of this "salute" that he has only a superficial
knowledge of Durbin's work and impact (among other oversights, he
failed to get her birthplace right) and, in that regard, he perhaps was
not the best person to compose a "salute"/"appraisal" of her legacy.

In addition to overlooking the great instantaneous and enduring success
Durbin enjoyed on radio (particularly significant in light of the fact
that operatic singing was at the height of its' popularity in America
as a radio attraction) in asserting that "Durbin lacked the sort of
vocal talent which could have launched her on a major opera career"
(possibly) because her "light but full soprano would not have carried
on operatic stages, Myers fails to consider both that Durbin, by
singing almost exclusively for the microphone throughout her career,
probably did not employ all of her vocal resources.

In his dismissive appraisal of Durbin's vocal talents, Myers also fails
to consider that, in projecting the wholesome "Little Miss Fixit"
persona which made her a star (and which her studio and the public
generally demanded), Durbin also probably did not employ her full
voice, rather perfecting a pure, unstressed, natural and artless vocal
production which would suit the reckless impulsive "Little Miss Fixit"
characters she so often played.

Finally, since Durbin retired at the ripe old age of 26/27 (and if one
believes contemporary accounts from Universal-International at the
time, she didn't sing for the studio after the age of 25), the public
clearly never heard Durbin's voice at its' full maturity. Unlike her
operatic (Grayson, Powell, etc.) and "pop" (Garland, Horne) movie
singer contemporaries, all of whom moved onto stage/cabaret work when
movie offers dried up, and all of whom, developed mature vocal styles
and production once free of the constraints of a studio-manufactured
"girlish" image, Durbin never treated us to her full vocal powers.

MInd you, I'm not saying that Myers was definitely mistaken in his
assertion that Durbin's voice may have been too light for a major opera
career, merely that in appraising her potential for operatic success
and in evaluating her abilities, he failed to consider may variables
which may have impacted his ability to judge her vocal potential
objectively or fairly.

The fact that he (apparently) never bothered to consider these
variables, to me, makes his appraisal of Durbin as both a singer and an
actress insufficient and uninformed, but, to give Myers his due, I do
not believe that he was being insincere in expressing his opinion, and
certainly not that he intended to be a "wise guy."

[Kultur]

Just for the record, I didn't mean to imply that I thought Myers was
being insincere in his appraisal of Durbin's talents/success, and
apologize if my post inferred that in any way. Rather, I intended to
imply that in his superficial appraisal of Durbin's talens and career,
he failed to do her justice as either a singer or an actress, not to
mention ignoring the impact she had in introducing many, many people to
the pleasures of clasical music and singing who otherwise would not
have given it a second glance/listen.

I've little doubt that Myers was sincere in his appraisal, however, I
suspect from the nature of this "salute" that he has only a superficial
knowledge of Durbin's work and impact (among other oversights, he
failed to get her birthplace right) and, in that regard, he perhaps was
not the best person to compose a "salute"/"appraisal" of her legacy.

In addition to overlooking the great instantaneous and enduring success
Durbin enjoyed on radio (particularly significant in light of the fact
that operatic singing was at the height of its' popularity in America
as a radio attraction) in asserting that "Durbin lacked the sort of
vocal talent which could have launched her on a major opera career"
(possibly) because her "light but full soprano would not have carried
on operatic stages, Myers fails to consider both that Durbin, by
singing almost exclusively for the microphone throughout her career,
probably did not employ all of her vocal resources.

In his dismissive appraisal of Durbin's vocal talents, Myers also fails
to consider that, in projecting the wholesome "Little Miss Fixit"
persona which made her a star (and which her studio and the public
generally demanded), Durbin also probably did not employ her full
voice, rather perfecting a pure, unstressed, natural and artless vocal
production which would suit the reckless impulsive "Little Miss Fixit"
characters she so often played.

Finally, since Durbin retired at the ripe old age of 26/27 (and if one
believes contemporary accounts from Universal-International at the
time, she didn't sing for the studio after the age of 25), the public
clearly never heard Durbin's voice at its' full maturity. Unlike her
operatic (Grayson, Powell, etc.) and "pop" (Garland, Horne) movie
singer contemporaries, all of whom moved onto stage/cabaret work when
movie offers dried up, and all of whom, developed mature vocal styles
and production once free of the constraints of a studio-manufactured
"girlish" image, Durbin never treated us to her full vocal powers.

MInd you, I'm not saying that Myers was definitely mistaken in his
assertion that Durbin's voice may have been too light for a major opera
career, merely that in appraising her potential for operatic success
and in evaluating her abilities, he failed to consider may variables
which may have impacted his ability to judge her vocal potential
objectively or fairly.

The fact that he (apparently) never bothered to consider these
variables, to me, makes his appraisal of Durbin as both a singer and an
actress insufficient and uninformed, but, to give Myers his due, I do
not believe that he was being insincere in expressing his opinion, and
certainly not that he intended to be a "wise guy."

[Kultur]

<<As to Grayson, I heard her in the mid to late 70s in a workshop for a
Bway
show, and even as a somewhat old broad who was having difficulties in
learning the lyrics, she had one of the absolutely fantastic voices
I've
ever heard live. Almost as strong as Merm's, and more ductile, and
certainly
she was a much more varied performer. She did lots of stuff in London,
and
then had a kind of secondary stage career here after that. >>

Your comment about Kathryn's voice being "almost as strong as Merm's"
is very interesting...Although I do notice some potential vocal heft in
her lowest range (not dissimilar to Roberta Peters' singing and those
of some other "light voiced" sopranos in this regard), I generally have
considered Kathryn's coloratura to be quite light overall, but
nevertheless embodied with that very high, high tessitura, laser-light
vocal production that generally carries quite well over even a very
large orchestra.

I've known a few people who have heard Kathryn perform live and they've
all stated that her voice "in person" was lighter than it seemed to be
in her films. (Of course, this is often the case with singers.) So I
was just wondering two things: 1. What songs/arias you heard Kathryn
sing and (approximately) how old she was when you heard her (DOB Feb.
9, 1922)? and 2. Whether she was singing in the lower/lowest range of
her singing voice when you heard her, a range she seldom employed in
her movie siniging and one which may have more body than her the
high-flying coloratura vocalizing for which she is best known.

[Kultur]

<<As to Grayson, I heard her in the mid to late 70s in a workshop for a
Bway
show, and even as a somewhat old broad who was having difficulties in
learning the lyrics, she had one of the absolutely fantastic voices
I've
ever heard live. Almost as strong as Merm's, and more ductile, and
certainly
she was a much more varied performer. She did lots of stuff in London,
and
then had a kind of secondary stage career here after that. >>

Your comment about Kathryn's voice being "almost as strong as Merm's"
is very interesting...Although I do notice some potential vocal heft in
her lowest range (not dissimilar to Roberta Peters' singing and those
of some other "light voiced" sopranos in this regard), I generally have
considered Kathryn's coloratura to be quite light overall, but
nevertheless embodied with that very high, high tessitura, laser-light
vocal production that generally carries quite well over even a very
large orchestra.

I've known a few people who have heard Kathryn perform live and they've
all stated that her voice "in person" was lighter than it seemed to be
in her films. (Of course, this is often the case with singers.) So I
was just wondering two things: 1. What songs/arias you heard Kathryn
sing and (approximately) how old she was when you heard her (DOB Feb.
9, 1922)? and 2. Whether she was singing in the lower/lowest range of
her singing voice when you heard her, a range she seldom employed in
her movie siniging and one which may have more body than her the
high-flying coloratura vocalizing for which she is best known.

[REG]

First, welcome to the group....I hope you will stay and ignore much of the
impossible imbecility (including, from time to time, my own)> I find your
posts very worthwhile and quite detailed.

Grayson was doing a musical that didn't make it out of workshop, in a fairly
small space, and this was about 1982 or so. That's the only time I heard
her, and although both the composer and the lyricist have gone on to be well
known since, I'd rather not give their names now. The birth date certainly
jibes with my recollection of the date. On stage, she looked no more than 50
(she played a Hollywood gossip columnist with a few very nice character
numbers), but when I saw her on the street a few hours later she seemed
completely peeked and worn out. The voice - and here we are going back two
decades and to a one-time hearing only - seemed very focused and powerful to
me, and I'd guess she was singing in the middle register generally. There
wasn't any real flexibility demanded in the role in terms of "coloratura",
but she really projected. That's the best I can do in terms of verbalizing
my recollections of two decades ago...sorry.

Best
REG

Post by Kultur
<<As to Grayson, I heard her in the mid to late 70s in a workshop for a
Bway
show, and even as a somewhat old broad who was having difficulties in
learning the lyrics, she had one of the absolutely fantastic voices I've
ever heard live. Almost as strong as Merm's, and more ductile, and certainly
she was a much more varied performer. She did lots of stuff in London, and
then had a kind of secondary stage career here after that. >>
Your comment about Kathryn's voice being "almost as strong as Merm's"
is very interesting...Although I do notice some potential vocal heft in
her lowest range (not dissimilar to Roberta Peters' singing and those
of some other "light voiced" sopranos in this regard), I generally have
considered Kathryn's coloratura to be quite light overall, but
nevertheless embodied with that very high, high tessitura, laser-light
vocal production that generally carries quite well over even a very
large orchestra.
I've known a few people who have heard Kathryn perform live and they've
all stated that her voice "in person" was lighter than it seemed to be
in her films. (Of course, this is often the case with singers.) So I
was just wondering two things: 1. What songs/arias you heard Kathryn
sing and (approximately) how old she was when you heard her (DOB Feb.
9, 1922)? and 2. Whether she was singing in the lower/lowest range of
her singing voice when you heard her, a range she seldom employed in
her movie siniging and one which may have more body than her the
high-flying coloratura vocalizing for which she is best known.

[Kultur]

Thanks for the welcome, Reg. It seems like a pretty nice group overall,
and we all have our predilections toward "imbecility" every once and a
while. At least I know I do. Sometimes more often than I'd care to
admit.

And please don't apologize for any imagined deficiencies in your "two
decades old" memories of Kathryn. I found your description very concise
and informative re Kathryn's vocal production. I'm kind of sorry the
production didn't make it out of the workshop stage (ironically, not
entirely dissimilar to Sondheim's recent production BOUNCE, featuring
Kathryn's MGM contemporary, Jane Powell, which, though it did manage to
tour in Washington and Chicago, failed to reach Broadway). I would have
enjoyed hearing Kathryn's performance as a "gossip columnist."

Incidentally, although I disagreed with Mr. Myers' assessment of Deanna
Durbin's talents and career, I have enjoyed many of his other
contributions on OPERA NEWS, including an (in my opinion) very well
done and flatteirng piece on movie baritones Howard Keel and Gordon
MacRae from a few years back, and a thoughtful write-up on Maria Von
Trapp. He's quite a talented writer.

[NickTenor]

Isnt it amazing how many responses are made when
Deanna Durbin is mentioned.

Well we have had Jane Powell, Ann Blythe, Kathryn Grayon
and Deanna Durbin all in one email mentioned. The surprising
thing is they are all still alive.

Wouldnt it be wonderful if they were given a special Gala
evening and the stars of yester-year and today paid tribute
to the wonderful films and music they have made, and have given
millions of people around the world so much pleasure.

I am sure Deanna would not be there (happily retired in France
with her family), its hard to believe that
she retired some 58 years ago. I treasure a signed photo she sent me
some 8 years ago.

Well all I have to say is THANKS, for everything girls.........

[Kultur]

Post by NickTenor
Isnt it amazing how many responses are made when
Deanna Durbin is mentioned.

Yes it is. For a star that is often said to be "largely (if unfairly)
forgotten" today, Deanna's name certainly generates a good deal of
interest. Two examples of this are the tremendously successful sales
videocassettes of her films enjoyed when they were released in the
mid-to-late 1990s. Reportedly they were the most successful series of
films released by MCA/UNIVERSAL Classics Home Video, outselling the
supposedly better-known UNIVERSAL HORROR, ABBOTT AND COSTELLO, MA & PA
KETTLE and FRANCIS series of films, among others.

Another example of Deanna's popularity through the decades since her
retirement is found in Richard Lamparski's WHATEVER BECAME
OF?...volumes. A collection of books which updated readers on the lives
of celebrities who had dropped out of the public eye, Lamparski
published (I think) sixteen editions between the mid-1960s and the late
1980s. In his final volume, he noted of Durbin: "Maintaining a private
life on a par with Garbo's, she remains, as she has been since the
first volume in this series was published, the most widely asked about
star of the past."

Post by NickTenor
Well we have had Jane Powell, Ann Blythe, Kathryn Grayon
and Deanna Durbin all in one email mentioned. The surprising
thing is they are all still alive.

And these aren't the only Golden Age screen sopranos still living. I
believe both Gloria Jean and Susanna Foster are still alive as
well,though Foster, after some difficult financial setbacks, reportedly
is residing in a retirement home in New Jersey.

Post by NickTenor
Wouldnt it be wonderful if they were given a special Gala
evening and the stars of yester-year and today paid tribute
to the wonderful films and music they have made, and have given
millions of people around the world so much pleasure.
I am sure Deanna would not be there (happily retired in France
with her family), its hard to believe that
she retired some 58 years ago. I treasure a signed photo she sent me
some 8 years ago.

It would be great, wouldn't it? Though I think you're right that
Deanna, at least, would be a "no show" at the event. I understand that
since the passing of her husband, Charles David, in 1999, Deanna has
"re-retired" and no longer responds to fan requests for autographs. As
she is now 83 years old, I think this decision is perfectly
understandable,and at least she was gracious enough to send a letter to
her fan club newsletter, THE DEANNA DURBIN SOCIETY, explaining the
reasons behind this decision. I'm glad that you were able to receive a
response from her before she decided to "re-retire."

Post by NickTenor
Well all I have to say is THANKS, for everything girls.........

Well said!

Not to slight the admirable legacies of these other talented ladies,
but, since I'm attempting to present a viable "counter-argument" to
Eric Myers' somewhat dismissive attitude toward Deanna's work and
talent, here are a couple of crtical comments which indicate that she
<<Durbin's sweet voice and sound musical instincts take on particular
value when she is compared to her 1940s counterparts, the "legit"
sopranos Jane Powell and Kathryn Grayson. Like Garland, Durbin was also
a very talented actress with an individual, recognizable style. That
style, related to her musical discipline, is perceived in her fluent,
rapid-fire, but utterly clear delivery of dialogue, in a diction with
irresistible impetus and energy, in irony that never smacks of
brattishness but rather, of real intelligence, and in a warmth of
personality that echoes her singing/speaking voice.

One of her first "grown-up" roles, in IT STARTED WITH EVE, pits her
against the formidable Charles Laughton, and the modulations of their
relationship is one of the joys of this romantic comedy. Her dramatic
roles in CHRISTMAS HOLIDAY and LADY ON A TRAIN suggest that
at a different studio--and perhaps with a different level of ambition
on her part--Durbin's career would not have been truncated so abruptly.
Her pluckiness remains a significant image of America in the late
1930s.>>

Post by NickTenor
From pop culture historian and opera commentator & critic Ethan

Mordden:

<<Like almost all Hollywood's trained voices, [Durbin]
does both opera and pop. She has neither the Metropolitan grandeur of
Lawrence Tibbett or Gladys Swarthout in the one nor the put-it-over
zing of Bing Crosby or Judy Garland in the other. Durbin splits the
difference. But her opera has a confidence one misses in the coveal
Kathryn Grayson and Jane Powell and her pop is pleasurable.>>

[Leonard Tillman]

From: ***@aol.com (Kultur)
(re: Greats recently-passed)

Post by Kultur
The Heavenly Choir must really sound
sensational these days!

LT:
"That Choir improves perpetually, while - as some feel - the quality of
singing here on Earth retrogresses at that very same pace (- mainly in
regard to the dearth of Dramatic voices among tenors, sopranos and
baritones). "

Post by Kultur
Yes. I don't know that a "dramatic" voice is
necessarily required for some of the heavier
roles,

That has long been a "hot-button" issue here.
To the taste of many, the dark-toned, clarion, heroic voices of the past
remain the preferred types for Otello, Manrico, Alvaro, Calaf, and such,
- though I've personally, and very much, enjoyed these roles sung by
excellent spintos, and even an occasional lyric voice with what I felt
to be the right intensity and style.

Post by Kultur
but what are generally labeled good "Verdi"
baritones, sopranos and tenors are certainly
in short supply these days.

Some relatively recent ones I haven't heard in quite a while, - are
Vladimir Chernov (great Boccanegra, Rigoletto, di Luna, and Carlo di
Vargas). Aprile Millo, Alessandra Marc, - and the still-popular Debra
Voight.

Post by Kultur
There was seemingly such an abundance of
them in the first half of the twentieth century,
one wonders whether the advent and
subsequent impact of rock 'n roll (and rock
influenced pop singing)
played havoc with classical vocal traditions
and singing.

And, perhaps the increased requirements for operatic careers nowadays,
--aside from and well beyond thorough studies in vocal technique and
music and the natural aptitudes, more-often met in the past,-- are
excessively-demanding, and ultimately too daunting for some, including
possessors of true dramatic voices, who might otherwise take all the
steps necessary in making themselves known.

Post by Kultur
Back in the day, budding classical singers like
Joan Sutherland and Elly Ameling, among
others, could be inspired by Deanna Durbin's
onscreen vocals and DECCA recordings
(both have cited Durbin as an important early
influence on their operatic aspirations) not to
mention the work of Powell, Grayson, Moore,
MacDonald, Swarthout, etc., Aspiring tenors
by Mario Lanza, Dennis Morgan, etc.

Including Alan Jones and (in European films) Jan Kiepura and Richard
Tauber.

Post by Kultur
baritones by Keel, Merrill, Gordon MacRae,
etc., but these artists evinced a style of
vocalism that has been largely subsumed in
popular culture by the disposable, "fifteen
minutes of fame" melisma-driven, faux
emotional, overwrought stylings of the latest
AMERICAN IDOL wannabes. (Not to mention
the melisma-driven, faux emotional,
overwrought stylings of the Whitney
Houstons, Celine Dions and Barbra
Streisands who influenced them.)

Streisand, I'd regard more highly as a singer, and in a similar vein,
Nana Mouskouri, of about that generation, but what we hear of the latest
newcomers just isn't in their league - assuming it's even listenable!

Post by Kultur
Incidentally, I mentioned the excellent write-up
that Kathryn received from the GROVE
DICTIONARY OF MUSIC a while back,
Deanna also received a fine write-up from
GROVE, which referenced her pervasive

<<Although [Durbin's] Hollywood career lasted only 13 years, she made a
lasting impression as the quintessential precocious innocent with a
natural vocal charm. She received a special Academy Award in 1938. The
possessor of a legitimate soprano voice with a wide range, Durbin had
the technical ability to use all areas of the voice effectively. She is
a rare example of a singer who was known only for her work in motion
pictures but nonetheless was considered to be a role model for many
young women considering a career on the
operatic and concert stages.>>

"Yes, these scenes are what I remember best from "Lovely"! Got to see it
again. "
That's one they don't show often enough on the various PBS stations, and
likewise, the similarly-made "Deep in My Heart", the partly
fictionalized biopic about Sigmund Romberg. "

Post by Kultur
I don't know whether you get the TURNER
=A0CLASSIC MOVIES cable channel, but TCM
does show both of these movies at least a few
times each year. It's interesting to see Helen
Traubel filling the "Lauritz Melchior" role of
slumming "legit" Met Opera Star in HEART
with good humor and intentions.

Traubel practically steals the show, and not only vocally.

Post by Kultur
I also enjoyed Miller's sizzling charleston to
"It", the only onscreen appearance of brothers
Fred and Gene Kelly to "I Love To Go
Swimmin' With Women", the "Maytime"
medley with Powell and Vic Damone, and that
(for it's time) fairly torrid dance by Cyd
Charisse and James Mitchell.

Mitchell, now about 84, has been a popular TV character-actor for some
thirty or more years.

Post by Kultur
(Oh, and the numbers featuring Jose Ferrer
with then wife Rosemary Clooney and his
solo enactment of all the parts in an operetta
were pretty good too.)

"I'd have been particularly interested to have seen this "Camille"! What
musical source would've been used? Or would it have been an entirely
original score? "

Post by Kultur
I was intrigued by the prospect of that musical
CAMILLE too. Unfortunately, I don't know any
details of what sort of music would have been
in it, only that it was a project that was
considered for KG. Certainly if they did go to
the original Verdi source, I think it would have
suited Kathryn well, both physically and
vocally.

"Absolutely. In youth, she had vocal and facial resemblances to Moffo
and today's Netrebko."

Post by Kultur
Kathryn would certainly have made a beautiful
Marguerite. No question. I suspect that had
the project gone forward, Metro would have
used the original Verdi score, though the
producers might have commissioned new
English lyrics for the music. It would have
saved the studio money in commissioning a
wholly new score, and the familiarity of the
Verdi music would have attracted both opera
afficianados and the mildly curious to see
how Metro pulled this version of TRAVIATA
off.

Really a pity it never came about. It would easily have been among the
best of its genre.

"You also mentioned a proposed screen version of "La Boheme"....making
me wonder which great stars of the Opera world might have partnered her,
had this film ever come about?.

"Perhaps....Lanza -- Rodolfo, Merrill -- Marcello, Lucine Amara --
Musetta, Baccaloni -- Alcindoro/Benoit, and as Colline, Siepi, Tozzi,
Hines, -- or even the King of the Bassos, himself, Ezio Pinza, yet in
films at the time (?). "

Post by Kultur
There were no details of other cast members
in the blurb I saw re the proposed film version
of BOHEME. Only a comment by Joe
Pasternak that he was attempting to get
Deanna to sign on for the project. I do think
she would have made an enchanting Mimi,
both vocally and physically, and it sounds like
you've alrready picked out a great cast to
support her. Too bad you weren't around at
the time!

"Probably just as well: I suspect I'd have been difficult, - greedily
appropriating the roles of both Marcello and Colline, as well as
demanding Jane Powell as my Musetta! Were she unavailable, I might've
agreed on Mimi Benzell, or possibly "Genevieve" the '50s Chanteuse often
appearing on Jack Paar's Tonight Show. -- Great Musetta-types, each of
these ladies. "

Post by Kultur
I could imagine the unfairly underrated Jane
Powell (who, oddly enough, doesn't even rate
an entry in the GROVE DICTIONARY) >making a charming Musetta,

Probably a matter of "fach", unless she occasionally performed Opera,
too.

Post by Kultur
and, as she was desperately trying to expand >her wholesome adolescent

screen image

Post by Kultur
in the 1950s, she
probably would have jumped at the
opportunity to play the role. (Of course, I could
also imagine Deanna Durbin doing
quite well in the role if the two switched parts,

As happens in Opera careers, - with so many Musettas later
distinguishing themselves in the "prime" role of Mimi.

Post by Kultur
though Durbin's fuller creamier tone might
have given her the edge for Mimi.) Patrice
Munsel might also have been a very attractive
and suitable Musetta,

That's for certain, and she sings the role, albeit briefly, in a popular
Boheme highlights LP with Di Stefano, Albanese, and Warren.

Post by Kultur
but as the Beecham BOHEME is my favorite
recording, if they were shooting for real opera
singers, I'd probably want Amara.

I've seen Amara perform Mimi, too, -- many years later.

Post by Kultur
You may not be aware that the rights to 1920s

torch singer Ruth

Post by Kultur
Etting's life story were
originally purchased by Joe Pasternak as a
film vehicle for Powell after she complained
that the studio wouldn't let her grow up
onscreen. Although the role of Etting was
subsequently given to the more popular Doris
Day, who made it one of the highlights of her
career, shortly before her death Etting stated
that she wished that Powell had played her
onscreen.

As a fan of both ladies, I'd have liked to have seen the role played by
Powell, too.

Post by Kultur
Of course, another possibility would be that
they'd assign non-singing actors in the roles
and dub them, but personally I would have
hoped they'd go for the real thing.

"Nearly-always preferable. Yet the dubbing option has been popular, even
as recently as the '80s, when filming the Boheme with Luca Canonici, -a
fine tenor himself- acting onscreen as Rodolfo, but dubbed by the
greater voice of Jose Carreras! I suppose JC wasn't free (or
well-enough) to appear in the role himself. "

Post by Kultur
I suspect Hollywood might have gone with this
dubbing option. Although MGM did import
Dorothy Kirsten and Jarmila Novatna for
Lanza's THE GREAT CARUSO, they often
just dubbed experienced film actors in
operatic biographies, as was the case with
Eileen Farrell doing an excellent dubbing job
for Eleanor Parker (doing an excellent miming
job) in the Marjorie Lawrence film bio,
INTERRUPTED MELODY. An intersting bit of
trivia connected with this film is that Kathryn
Grayson claimed the real-life Marjorie
Lawrence vetoed her for the role because she
was "too pretty." Personally, talented vocalist
though she was, I can't imagine Kathryn's
florid coloratura being an acceptable
substitute for Lawrence's powerful,
voluminous dramatic soprano.

*That*, however appealing to movie fans, would surely have been a
miscast.

"Another sometimes "easy-going" soprano, stylewise, is Kiri Te Kanawa,
who I thought excellent as Eliza,
opposite Jeremy Irons' ideal Higgins! This is on a CD performance that
IMO should've been done as a video (or now, - DVD). "

Post by Kultur
Actually,I've never heard Te Kanawa's version
of MY FAIR LADY. I saw her perform some of
the selections from her recording of SOUTH
PACIFIC and thought she was so stupifyingly
dreadful and inappropriate as "Nellie
Forbush", both vocally and
temperamentally/dramatically, that it killed my
interest I might have
had in her pop-singing efforts.

In both aspects, my favorite Nellies are still Martin and Gaynor.

Post by Kultur
Prior to that horrific experience, I found her
Nelson Riddle scored album of standards
BLUE SKIES to be pleasant but bland in the
style of most "legit" sopranos slumming.
My general appraisal is that most opera
singers should be given their due for the
genuine affection they have for the classic
pop genre, but they completely lack the sense
of style, artlessness and spontaneity required
to be effective in this genre. It's one reason I
like Durbin and Powell so much, because
they could sing popular music very effectively,
just as they did their more frequent classical
vocals.

Kirsten, too - as she did in an album of "tropically-flavored" hits,
such as "Poinciana".

Post by Kultur
Eileen Farrell, of course, was an exception
among "opera" singers in being quite effective
in switching vocal gears and styles (despite
her huge voice) between opera and
"pop/jazz" with equal ease and
comprehension of the disparate styles, and I
thought Robert Merrill and Elly Ameling were
pretty good at it, but most oprea singers
"shoulda stood in bed" rather than attempting
forays into the Great American Songbook
genre.

The worst examples are those who'd continue trilling their "r's", -- no
matter the song! Most useful in parodies of "opera-singers".

Post by Kultur
The success of Durbin, Powell, Farrell, Merrill,
Dorothy Kirsten and a few others in the pop
genre brings up an interesting point about the
influence of singing for the radio as a
pre-requisite for classical singers tackling the
more intimate demands of the Great
American Songbook genre effectively. All
three of these vocalists spent a good deal of
their formative years singing on radio, where
they undoubtedly mastered the technique of
meeting the more intimate demands of
singing for the microphone which was lost on
classical singers of an earlier generation
(e.g., Rosa Ponselle, Lawrence Tibbett, etc.)
Then again, Beverly Sills was, like Durbin and
Powell, also a radio singing child prodigy and
she sounds dreadful in the pop genre (e.g.,
her album of operetta favorites with Sherill
Milne and Julius Rudell is a good argument
for capital punishment for classical singers
who stray into genres they shouldn't), so who
knows?

In that album, I did love their "Indian Love Call", - but then, it's
Operetta, and was popularized by their not-dissimilar predecessors, Eddy
and MacDonald.

Post by Kultur
(Incidentally, not to speak ill of the dead, but
Farrell cribbed the title of her late 1990s
memoir CAN'T HELP SINGING from the
Jerome Kern/E.Y.Harburg title song of
Deanna Durbin's 1944 Technicolor starrer.
Durbin's performance of this soaring melody
is glorious, but, to the best of my knowledge,
it's a song the talented Farrell never recorded
or sang in public.)

Has it been sung/recorded by anyone else, since?

You may have just given me an idea for another thread.

Best,

Leonard Tillman

[Kultur]

Post by Leonard Tillman
(re: Greats recently-passed)

Post by Kultur
Yes. I don't know that a "dramatic" voice is
necessarily required for some of the heavier
roles,

That has long been a "hot-button" issue here.
To the taste of many, the dark-toned, clarion, heroic voices of the past
remain the preferred types for Otello, Manrico, Alvaro, Calaf, and such,
- though I've personally, and very much, enjoyed these roles sung by
excellent spintos, and even an occasional lyric voice with what I felt
to be the right intensity and style.

And it justifiably remains a "hot button" issue in my opinion.
Although, like you, I too have enjoyed and admired the skill with which
the occasional intelligent lyric voiced singer has navigated these much
more demanding vocal waters (Mirella Freni comes immediately to mind),
this is definitely the exception rather than the norm. Far too many
others (e.g., Carreras, Ricciarelli, etc.) have destroyed their
uncommonly attractive natural natural lyric sounds in unsuccessful
attempts to successfully steer between the disparate demands of rampant
ego and an unsuitable, too-demanding vocal fach.

Say what one may against the movie sopranos, with the exception of the
improperly trained Jane Powell (who, despite her recent appearance in
Sondheim's unsuccessful show BOUNCE, has admitted that the operatic
soprano of her MGM heyday is long gone), they all seemed to manage to
keep their voices in very good shape and to manage the transition from
film to stage singing with intelligence and care.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Kultur
but what are generally labeled good "Verdi"
baritones, sopranos and tenors are certainly
in short supply these days.

Some relatively recent ones I haven't heard in quite a while, - are
Vladimir Chernov (great Boccanegra, Rigoletto, di Luna, and Carlo di
Vargas). Aprile Millo, Alessandra Marc, - and the still-popular Debra
Voight.

With the exception of Voigt, I haven't heard much of them either, and
even in Voigt's case, though I've heard of her recent work, I haven't
had a chance to listen to her recent efforts.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Kultur
There was seemingly such an abundance of
them in the first half of the twentieth century,
one wonders whether the advent and
subsequent impact of rock 'n roll (and rock
influenced pop singing)
played havoc with classical vocal traditions
and singing.

And, perhaps the increased requirements for operatic careers

nowadays,

Post by Leonard Tillman
--aside from and well beyond thorough studies in vocal technique and
music and the natural aptitudes, more-often met in the past,-- are
excessively-demanding, and ultimately too daunting for some,

including

Post by Leonard Tillman
possessors of true dramatic voices, who might otherwise take all the
steps necessary in making themselves known.

Post by Kultur
Back in the day, budding classical singers like
Joan Sutherland and Elly Ameling, among
others, could be inspired by Deanna Durbin's
onscreen vocals and DECCA recordings
(both have cited Durbin as an important early
influence on their operatic aspirations) not to
mention the work of Powell, Grayson, Moore,
MacDonald, Swarthout, etc., Aspiring tenors
by Mario Lanza, Dennis Morgan, etc.

Including Alan Jones and (in European films) Jan Kiepura and Richard
Tauber.

I suppose one could also include "pop" tenor Dick Powell, not to
mention popular radio crooner (and occasional film actor) Kenny Baker,
whose "Just You Wait and See" provides one of the nicest (if seldom
mentioned) moments in the Judy Garland musical western, THE HARVEY
GIRLS.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Kultur
baritones by Keel, Merrill, Gordon MacRae,
etc., but these artists evinced a style of
vocalism that has been largely subsumed in
popular culture by the disposable, "fifteen
minutes of fame" melisma-driven, faux
emotional, overwrought stylings of the latest
AMERICAN IDOL wannabes. (Not to mention
the melisma-driven, faux emotional,
overwrought stylings of the Whitney
Houstons, Celine Dions and Barbra
Streisands who influenced them.)

Streisand, I'd regard more highly as a singer, and in a similar vein,
Nana Mouskouri, of about that generation, but what we hear of the latest
newcomers just isn't in their league - assuming it's even listenable!

Although I'm no fan of Streisand's overall, for her successful efforts
I'd regard her more highly as a singer than the "newer breed" as well.
I included her in my list because I believe that most of these
"newcomers" seem to have greedily adopted her often overwrought,
egocentric singing style without realizing that they lack the
temperament/personality which (infrequently, in my opinion), made
Streisand a compelling and individual artist,despite her failings. I
certainly don't blame Streisand for this, but she does strike me as a
primary source for much of what I think is wrong with today's pop
singing.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Kultur
Incidentally, I mentioned the excellent write-up
that Kathryn received from the GROVE
DICTIONARY OF MUSIC a while back,
Deanna also received a fine write-up from
GROVE, which referenced her pervasive

<<Although [Durbin's] Hollywood career lasted only 13 years, she made a
lasting impression as the quintessential precocious innocent with a
natural vocal charm. She received a special Academy Award in 1938. The
possessor of a legitimate soprano voice with a wide range, Durbin had
the technical ability to use all areas of the voice effectively. She is
a rare example of a singer who was known only for her work in motion
pictures but nonetheless was considered to be a role model for many
young women considering a career on the
operatic and concert stages.>>
Traubel practically steals the show, and not only vocally.

Traubel plays her role in DEEP IN MY HEART with good humor, and I agree
that she manages to grab a good deal of the spotlight with her good
natured performance. As a vocalist, however, although I love her warm
opulent sound, she still sounds like an opera singer slumming to me.
Still, I've always liked her in the film, not to mention her radio
appearances with Jimmy Durante. I also admire her for telling Rudolph
Bing where to get off when he "suggested" she discontinue accepting
such "unworthy" offers.

Post by Leonard Tillman
Mitchell, now about 84, has been a popular TV character-actor for some
thirty or more years.

I think Mitchell also played the role of the magician in the Broadway
musical CARNIVAL opposite the sadly recently deceased Jerry Orbach and
the charming Anna Maria Alberghetti. The OCR indicates he wasn't much
of a vocalist, but he certainly was a fine dancer. It's nice to know
he's still working.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Kultur
Kathryn would certainly have made a beautiful
Marguerite. No question. I suspect that had
the project gone forward, Metro would have
used the original Verdi score, though the
producers might have commissioned new
English lyrics for the music. It would have
saved the studio money in commissioning a
wholly new score, and the familiarity of the
Verdi music would have attracted both opera
afficianados and the mildly curious to see
how Metro pulled this version of TRAVIATA
off.

Really a pity it never came about. It would easily have been among the
best of its genre.

It's a shame, alright. Kathryn did go to Warners just prior to KISS ME
KATE to play the title role in the Grace Moore biopic SO THIS IS LOVE.
Despite a hackneyed script that didn't do anyone in the cast any favors
(reportedly Moore's husband vetoed a more realistic one which would
have presented him in an unfavorable light), I thought the film
provided a good display for her vocal versatility.

Post by Leonard Tillman
"You also mentioned a proposed screen version of "La

Boheme"....making

Post by Leonard Tillman
me wonder which great stars of the Opera world might have partnered her,
had this film ever come about?.
"Perhaps....Lanza -- Rodolfo, Merrill -- Marcello, Lucine Amara --
Musetta, Baccaloni -- Alcindoro/Benoit, and as Colline, Siepi, Tozzi,
Hines, -- or even the King of the Bassos, himself, Ezio Pinza, yet in
films at the time (?). "

Post by Kultur
There were no details of other cast members
in the blurb I saw re the proposed film version
of BOHEME. Only a comment by Joe
Pasternak that he was attempting to get
Deanna to sign on for the project. I do think
she would have made an enchanting Mimi,
both vocally and physically, and it sounds like
you've alrready picked out a great cast to
support her. Too bad you weren't around at
the time!

"Probably just as well: I suspect I'd have been difficult, - greedily
appropriating the roles of both Marcello and Colline, as well as
demanding Jane Powell as my Musetta! Were she unavailable, I might've
agreed on Mimi Benzell, or possibly "Genevieve" the '50s Chanteuse often
appearing on Jack Paar's Tonight Show. -- Great Musetta-types, each of
these ladies. "

Post by Kultur
I could imagine the unfairly underrated Jane
Powell (who, oddly enough, doesn't even rate
an entry in the GROVE DICTIONARY) >making a charming Musetta,

Probably a matter of "fach", unless she occasionally performed Opera,
too.

Post by Kultur
and, as she was desperately trying to expand >her wholesome

adolescent

Post by Leonard Tillman
screen image

Post by Kultur
in the 1950s, she
probably would have jumped at the
opportunity to play the role. (Of course, I could
also imagine Deanna Durbin doing
quite well in the role if the two switched parts,

As happens in Opera careers, - with so many Musettas later
distinguishing themselves in the "prime" role of Mimi.

Post by Kultur
though Durbin's fuller creamier tone might
have given her the edge for Mimi.) Patrice
Munsel might also have been a very attractive
and suitable Musetta,

That's for certain, and she sings the role, albeit briefly, in a popular
Boheme highlights LP with Di Stefano, Albanese, and Warren.

Post by Kultur
but as the Beecham BOHEME is my favorite
recording, if they were shooting for real opera
singers, I'd probably want Amara.

I've seen Amara perform Mimi, too, -- many years later.

How was she? I'd like to think she was as charming as she is on the
recording, but Time has a way of playing havoc with many voices, so who
knows?

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Kultur
You may not be aware that the rights to 1920s

torch singer Ruth

Post by Kultur
Etting's life story were
originally purchased by Joe Pasternak as a
film vehicle for Powell after she complained
that the studio wouldn't let her grow up
onscreen. Although the role of Etting was
subsequently given to the more popular Doris
Day, who made it one of the highlights of her
career, shortly before her death Etting stated
that she wished that Powell had played her
onscreen.

As a fan of both ladies, I'd have liked to have seen the role played by
Powell, too.

I would have enjoyed seeing Jane as Etting too. In any case, following
her splendid work in SEVEN BRIDES, in which she conclusively proved
that she could handle an adult musical role, she deserved much better
than the warmed over version of HIT THE DECK MGM imposed on her.
Reportedly the studio was planning to re-team Jane and Howard Keel in a
musical version of ROBIN HOOD which would have probably been a far more
worthy project, but, like the proposed vehicles for Grayson, it
ultimately didn't come to pass.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Kultur
Of course, another possibility would be that
they'd assign non-singing actors in the roles
and dub them, but personally I would have
hoped they'd go for the real thing.
I suspect Hollywood might have gone with this
dubbing option. Although MGM did import
Dorothy Kirsten and Jarmila Novatna for
Lanza's THE GREAT CARUSO, they often
just dubbed experienced film actors in
operatic biographies, as was the case with
Eileen Farrell doing an excellent dubbing job
for Eleanor Parker (doing an excellent miming
job) in the Marjorie Lawrence film bio,
INTERRUPTED MELODY. An intersting bit of
trivia connected with this film is that Kathryn
Grayson claimed the real-life Marjorie
Lawrence vetoed her for the role because she
was "too pretty." Personally, talented vocalist
though she was, I can't imagine Kathryn's
florid coloratura being an acceptable
substitute for Lawrence's powerful,
voluminous dramatic soprano.

*That*, however appealing to movie fans, would surely have been a
miscast.

I'm not even sure whether movie fans would have enjoyed seeing Kathryn
as Marjorie Lawrence. In any case, the combination of Farrell's
offscreen vocals and Parker's onscreen dramatics did work splendidly,
with Parker doing an excellent job of miming to Farrell's singing.

Post by Leonard Tillman
Kirsten, too - as she did in an album of "tropically-flavored" hits,
such as "Poinciana".

Yes,I have the "pop" recordings Kirsten made for Columbia on CD and
they're excellent. Like her opera singing, Kirsten's pop stylings are a
little careful and stylized in some respects, but she certainly
understands the style and demands of pop singing as few opera divas do
(or did, in her day.)

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Kultur
Eileen Farrell, of course, was an exception
among "opera" singers in being quite effective
in switching vocal gears and styles (despite
her huge voice) between opera and
"pop/jazz" with equal ease and
comprehension of the disparate styles, and I
thought Robert Merrill and Elly Ameling were
pretty good at it, but most oprea singers
"shoulda stood in bed" rather than attempting
forays into the Great American Songbook
genre.

The worst examples are those who'd continue trilling their "r's", -- no
matter the song! Most useful in parodies of "opera-singers".

Yes, and perhaps one of the worst offenders in this regard was the
otherwise talented Jeanette MacDonald, who, as a friend of mine once
commented, "Never met an "r" she didn't roll." I admire the skill and
intelligence with which MacDonald managed such a light and fragile
instrument, but her her heavily stylized vocalism, even in a throwaway
novelty number like "The Dicky Bird Song", clearly reflects the ascetic
lifestyle she readily adopted to absorb her demanding teacher's obtuse
vocal methods.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Kultur
The success of Durbin, Powell, Farrell, Merrill,
Dorothy Kirsten and a few others in the pop
genre brings up an interesting point about the
influence of singing for the radio as a
pre-requisite for classical singers tackling the
more intimate demands of the Great
American Songbook genre effectively. All
three of these vocalists spent a good deal of
their formative years singing on radio, where
they undoubtedly mastered the technique of
meeting the more intimate demands of
singing for the microphone which was lost on
classical singers of an earlier generation
(e.g., Rosa Ponselle, Lawrence Tibbett, etc.)
Then again, Beverly Sills was, like Durbin and
Powell, also a radio singing child prodigy and
she sounds dreadful in the pop genre (e.g.,
her album of operetta favorites with Sherill
Milne and Julius Rudell is a good argument
for capital punishment for classical singers
who stray into genres they shouldn't), so who
knows?

In that album, I did love their "Indian Love Call", - but then, it's
Operetta, and was popularized by their not-dissimilar predecessors, Eddy
and MacDonald.

Actually, I recall that Sills did do an enjoyable solo recording of
Victor Herbert songs, which showed off her talents in this area much
better, but I found her performances with Milnes on their duet album to
be impossibly arch overall, while his were extremely pompous, almost as
if he was channeling Ted Knight's classic "Ted Baxter" character from
THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW without the leavening bits of self-parody and
humor.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Kultur
(Incidentally, not to speak ill of the dead, but
Farrell cribbed the title of her late 1990s
memoir CAN'T HELP SINGING from the
Jerome Kern/E.Y.Harburg title song of
Deanna Durbin's 1944 Technicolor starrer.
Durbin's performance of this soaring melody
is glorious, but, to the best of my knowledge,
it's a song the talented Farrell never recorded
or sang in public.)

Has it been sung/recorded by anyone else, since?

Actually, I think Marni Nixon may have recorded it on her album of Kern
music, and (I think) I recall hearing Nelson Eddy sing it as part of a
radio tribute to Kern, as well as hearing Sergio Franchi give it a try
on a variety show.

Speaking of other singers performing songs Durbin introduced, another
song from CAN'T HELP SIGNING was the lovely Oscar-nominated ballad,
"More and More". Shortly after the film premiered, Durbin reportedly
received the following telegram about this tune:

"Dear Deanna:

I want you to know that I was planning to sing "More and More" on my
radio show this evening, but after hearing you do it, I dropped it like
a hot potato. Lady, there's no way I can compete with you!"

Frank Sinatra

Post by Leonard Tillman
You may have just given me an idea for another thread.

By all means start go with the thought. You write wonderfully (and
insightfully) and I'd enjoy reading (and possibly contributing) to any
other thoughts/opinions you may have on these topics.

Post by Leonard Tillman
Best,
Leonard Tillman

[a***@comcast.net]

"Kultur" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

From where I'm looking, Doris Day had the greatest lookin' ass in
Hollywood.
As Moishe Ferdishe used to sing [?] "Ah yes, I remember it well."
Æ Shrek

[Leonard Tillman]

Post by Leonard Tillman
(re: Greats recently-passed)
Yes. I don't know that a "dramatic" voice is
necessarily required for some of the heavier
roles,

"That has long been a "hot-button" issue here.
To the taste of many, the dark-toned, clarion, heroic voices of the
past
remain the preferred types for Otello, Manrico, Alvaro, Calaf, and
such,

"- though I've personally, and very much, enjoyed these roles sung by
excellent spintos, and even an occasional lyric voice with what I felt
to be the right intensity and style. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
And it justifiably remains a "hot button" issue
in my opinion. Although, like you, I too have
enjoyed and admired the skill with which the
occasional intelligent lyric voiced singer has
navigated these much more demanding vocal
waters (Mirella Freni comes immediately to
mind), this is definitely the exception rather
than the norm.

I especially enjoyed her Aida and (Forza) Leonora.

Post by Leonard Tillman
Far too many others (e.g., Carreras,
Ricciarelli, etc.) have destroyed their
uncommonly attractive natural natural lyric
sounds in unsuccessful attempts to
successfully steer between the disparate
demands of rampant ego and an unsuitable,
too-demanding vocal fach.

With Carreras, some pressure from von Karajan may have been involved in
his taking-on of one or more such roles..

Post by Leonard Tillman
Say what one may against the movie
sopranos, with the exception of the
improperly trained Jane Powell (who, despite
her recent appearance in Sondheim's
unsuccessful show BOUNCE, has admitted
that the operatic soprano of her MGM heyday
is long gone), they all seemed to manage to
keep their voices in very good shape and to
manage the transition from film to stage
singing with intelligence and care.

Thanks to their solid techniques, for which there is no substitute, as
we see in the more-positive examples of each era - in both MT and
Opera..

"but what are generally labeled good "Verdi" baritones, sopranos and
tenors are certainly in short supply these days.

"Some relatively recent ones I haven't heard in quite a while, - are
Vladimir Chernov (great Boccanegra, Rigoletto, di Luna, and Carlo di
Vargas). Aprile Millo, Alessandra Marc, - and the still-popular Debra
Voight. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
With the exception of Voigt, I haven't heard
much of them either, and even in Voigt's
case, though I've heard of her recent work, I
haven't had a chance to listen to her recent
efforts.

Last I heard was her Aida - one of the best in years.

Post by Leonard Tillman
There was seemingly such an abundance of
them in the first half of the twentieth century,
one wonders whether the advent and
subsequent impact of rock 'n roll (and rock
influenced pop singing)
played havoc with classical vocal traditions
and singing.

"And, perhaps the increased requirements for operatic careers nowadays,
--aside from and well beyond thorough studies in vocal technique and
music and the natural aptitudes, more-often met in the past,-- are
excessively-demanding, and ultimately too daunting for some, including
possessors of true dramatic voices, who might otherwise take all the
steps necessary in making themselves known. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
Back in the day, budding classical singers like
Joan Sutherland and Elly Ameling, among
others, could be inspired by Deanna Durbin's
onscreen vocals and DECCA recordings
(both have cited Durbin as an important early
influence on their operatic aspirations) not to
mention the work of Powell, Grayson, Moore,
MacDonald, Swarthout, etc.,

IIRC, Moore inspired Kirsten , too.

Post by Leonard Tillman
Aspiring tenors by Mario Lanza, Dennis
Morgan, etc.

"Including Alan Jones and (in European films) Jan Kiepura and Richard
Tauber. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
I suppose one could also include "pop" tenor
Dick Powell, not to mention popular radio
crooner (and occasional film actor) Kenny
Baker, whose "Just You Wait and See"

Very similar, those two. I once saw Baker as "Nanki-Poo" in "The
Mikado".

Post by Leonard Tillman
provides one of the nicest (if seldom
mentioned) moments in the Judy Garland
musical western, THE HARVEY GIRLS.
baritones by Keel, Merrill, Gordon MacRae,
etc., but these artists evinced a style of
vocalism that has been largely subsumed in
popular culture by the disposable, "fifteen
minutes of fame" melisma-driven, faux
emotional, overwrought stylings of the latest
AMERICAN IDOL wannabes. (Not to mention
the melisma-driven, faux emotional,
overwrought stylings of the Whitney
Houstons, Celine Dions and Barbra
Streisands who influenced them.)

"Streisand, I'd regard more highly as a singer, and in a similar vein,
Nana Mouskouri, of about that generation, but what we hear of the latest
newcomers just isn't in their league - assuming it's even listenable! "

Post by Leonard Tillman
Although I'm no fan of Streisand's overall, for
her successful efforts I'd regard her more
highly as a singer than the "newer breed" as
well. I included her in my list because I
believe that most of these "newcomers" seem
to have greedily adopted her often
overwrought, egocentric singing style without
realizing that they lack the
temperament/personality which (infrequently,
in my opinion), made Streisand a compelling
and individual artist,despite her failings. I
certainly don't blame Streisand for this, but
she does strike me as a primary source for
much of what I think is wrong with today's pop
singing.

I've noticed that her half-sister, Roslynd Kind, has, as might be
expected, a striking vocal similarity, a less-intense, milder persona
and seemingly more affability. - But wasn't destined for comparable
renown.

Post by Leonard Tillman
Incidentally, I mentioned the excellent write-up
that Kathryn received from the GROVE
DICTIONARY OF MUSIC a while back,
Deanna also received a fine write-up from
GROVE, which referenced her pervasive

<<Although [Durbin's] Hollywood career lasted only 13 years, she made a
lasting impression as the quintessential precocious innocent with a
natural vocal charm. She received a special Academy Award in 1938. The
possessor of a legitimate soprano voice with a wide range, Durbin had
the technical ability to use all areas of the voice effectively. She is
a rare example of a singer who was known only for her work in motion
pictures but nonetheless was considered to be a role model for many
young women considering a career on the
operatic and concert stages.>>

"Traubel practically steals the show, and not only vocally. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
Traubel plays her role in DEEP IN MY HEART
with good humor, and I agree that she
manages to grab a good deal of the spotlight
with her good natured performance. As a
vocalist, however, although I love her warm
opulent sound, she still sounds like an opera
singer slumming to me. Still, I've always liked
her in the film, not to mention her radio
appearances with Jimmy Durante.

Their duet, "We wuz born to sing wid each other!" is a classic!

Post by Leonard Tillman
I also admire her for telling Rudolph Bing
where to get off when he "suggested" she
discontinue accepting such "unworthy" offers.

"(James) Mitchell, now about 84, has been a popular TV character-actor
for some thirty or
more years. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
I think Mitchell also played the role of the
magician in the Broadway musical
CARNIVAL opposite the sadly recently
deceased Jerry Orbach and the charming
Anna Maria Alberghetti.

The role played by Jean-Pierre Aumont in the prior movie-version,
"Lili", with Mel Ferrer and Leslie Caron.

Post by Leonard Tillman
The OCR indicates he wasn't much of a
vocalist, but he certainly was a fine dancer.

Or "hoofer", as he referred to himself in an interview.

Post by Leonard Tillman
It's nice to know he's still working.

He has one of finest speaking-voices, from what I've heard.

Post by Leonard Tillman
[...]Kathryn did go to Warners just prior to
KISS ME KATE to play the title role in the
Grace Moore biopic SO THIS IS LOVE.
Despite a hackneyed script that didn't do
anyone in the cast any favors (reportedly
Moore's husband vetoed a more realistic one
which would have presented him in an
unfavorable light), I thought the film provided
a good display for her vocal versatility.

The plot did seem bland, despite the fine cast's efforts to make it
work.

Post by Leonard Tillman
[....] as the Beecham BOHEME is my favorite
recording, if they were shooting for real opera
singers, I'd probably want Amara.

"I've seen Amara perform Mimi, too, -- many years later. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
How was she? I'd like to think she was as
charming as she is on the recording, but Time
has a way of playing havoc with many voices,
so who knows?

Well, when I saw her "Mimi" some eighteen years later than the great
Beecham recording-date, Amara had lost none of her charm, the voice was
still exciting, and she presented an attractively petite image. I was
told at the time, that she'd substituted for the originally-scheduled
Caballe.


(Re: Jane Powell, losing the Ruth Etting role to Doris Day: )

"As a fan of both ladies, I'd have liked to have seen the role played by
Powell, too. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
I would have enjoyed seeing Jane as Etting
too. In any case, following her splendid work
in SEVEN BRIDES, in which she conclusively
proved that she could handle an adult musical
role, she deserved much better than the
warmed over version of HIT THE DECK MGM
imposed on her. Reportedly the studio was
planning to re-team Jane and Howard Keel in
a musical version of ROBIN HOOD which
would have probably been a far more worthy
project, but, like the proposed vehicles for
Grayson, it ultimately didn't come to pass.

This might've been one of the genre's and MGM's best-ever!
It occurs to me that Keel would have been equally-suited to play "Little
John"!

(Re: Kirsten's song-album: )

"[....] an album of "tropically-flavored" hits, such as "Poinciana". "

Post by Leonard Tillman
Yes,I have the "pop" recordings Kirsten made
for Columbia on CD and they're excellent.
Like her opera singing, Kirsten's pop stylings
are a little careful and stylized in some
respects, but she certainly understands the
style and demands of pop singing as few
opera divas do (or did, in her day.)

Though a bit restrained, she still managed the spontaneity needed to put
these romantic songs across, so well.

Post by Leonard Tillman
Eileen Farrell, of course, was an exception
among "opera" singers in being quite effective
in switching vocal gears and styles (despite
her huge voice) between opera and
"pop/jazz" with equal ease and
comprehension of the disparate styles, and I
thought Robert Merrill and Elly Ameling were
pretty good at it, but most oprea singers
"shoulda stood in bed" rather than attempting
forays into the Great American Songbook
genre.

The worst examples are those who'd continue trilling their "r's", -- no
matter the song! Most useful in parodies of "opera-singers".

Post by Leonard Tillman
Yes, and perhaps one of the worst offenders
in this regard was the otherwise talented
Jeanette MacDonald, who, as a friend of mine
once commented, "Never met an "r" she didn't
roll."

I found this to be about as true of Tibbett and later, Tucker, in their
song-rep, yet, it didn't detract from my enjoyment of their respective
renditions.

Post by Leonard Tillman
I admire the skill and intelligence with which
MacDonald managed such a light and fragile
instrument, but her her heavily stylized
vocalism, even in a throwaway novelty
number like "The Dicky Bird Song", clearly
reflects the ascetic lifestyle she readily
adopted to absorb her demanding teacher's
obtuse vocal methods.

I have a bio nearby (of her and Eddy)..... perhaps there are some, if
any, related recollections about her studies.

Post by Leonard Tillman
[....] Beverly Sills was, like Durbin and Powell,
also a radio singing child prodigy and she
sounds dreadful in the pop genre (e.g., her
album of operetta favorites with Sherill Milne
and Julius Rudell is a good argument for
capital punishment for classical singers who
stray into genres they shouldn't), so who
knows?

"In that album, I did love their "Indian Love Call", - but then, it's
Operetta, and was popularized by their not-dissimilar predecessors, Eddy
and MacDonald. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
Actually, I recall that Sills did do an enjoyable
solo recording of Victor Herbert songs, which
showed off her talents in this area much
better, but I found her performances with
Milnes on their duet album to be impossibly
arch overall, while his were extremely
pompous, almost as if he was channeling Ted
Knight's classic "Ted Baxter" character from
THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW without
the leavening bits of self-parody and humor.

There are testimonies that this description actually doesfit him rather
well, - in his demeanor toward some non-VIPs he's worked with..

Post by Leonard Tillman
(Incidentally, not to speak ill of the dead, but
Farrell cribbed the title of her late 1990s
memoir CAN'T HELP SINGING from the
Jerome Kern/E.Y.Harburg title song of
Deanna Durbin's 1944 Technicolor starrer.
Durbin's performance of this soaring melody
is glorious, but, to the best of my knowledge,
it's a song the talented Farrell never recorded
or sang in public.)

"Has it been sung/recorded by anyone else, since? "

Post by Leonard Tillman
Actually, I think Marni Nixon may have
recorded it on her album of Kern music, and (I
think) I recall hearing Nelson Eddy sing it as
part of a radio tribute to Kern, as well as
hearing Sergio Franchi give it a try on a
variety show.

Ah, yes, that does ring a bell....probably a late '60s Merv Griffin
Show appearance.

Post by Leonard Tillman
Speaking of other singers performing songs
Durbin introduced, another song from CAN'T
HELP SIGNING was the lovely
Oscar-nominated ballad, "More and More".
Shortly after the film premiered, Durbin
reportedly received the following telegram

"Dear Deanna:
I want you to know that I was planning to sing "More and More" on my
radio show this evening, but after hearing you do it, I dropped it like
a hot potato. Lady, there's no way I can compete with you!"
Frank Sinatra

Sort of "sounds" like Sinatra! Nice of him to compliment her, so.

"You may have just given me an idea for another thread. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
By all means start go with the thought. You
write wonderfully (and insightfully) and I'd
enjoy reading (and possibly contributing) to
any other thoughts/opinions you may have on
these topics.

Many thanks! - And I look forward to reading many more of your posts,
too.


Best,
=A0=A0

Leonard Tillman

[Kultur]

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Leonard Tillman
Far too many others (e.g., Carreras,
Ricciarelli, etc.) have destroyed their
uncommonly attractive natural natural lyric
sounds in unsuccessful attempts to
successfully steer between the disparate
demands of rampant ego and an unsuitable,
too-demanding vocal fach.

With Carreras, some pressure from von Karajan may have been involved in
his taking-on of one or more such roles..

I think von Karajan may also have been involved in convincing
Ricciarelli to take on heavier roles. Not sure though. In any case, a
big mistake in my opinion.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Leonard Tillman
Back in the day, budding classical singers like
Joan Sutherland and Elly Ameling, among
others, could be inspired by Deanna Durbin's
onscreen vocals and DECCA recordings
(both have cited Durbin as an important early
influence on their operatic aspirations) not to
mention the work of Powell, Grayson, Moore,
MacDonald, Swarthout, etc.,

IIRC, Moore inspired Kirsten , too.

I believe that Moore did more than inspire Kirsten. I think she was
Kirsten's mentor. An interesting bit of Durbin/Moore trivia: Reportedly
after hearing Deanna's national radio debut on THE SHELL CHATEAU HOUR
on December 26, 1935, on which Durbin sang the title song from Moore's
hit film ONE NIGHT OF LOVE, Moore reportedly remarked: "That little
girl is a better singer than I am."

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Leonard Tillman
Aspiring tenors by Mario Lanza, Dennis
Morgan, etc.

"Including Alan Jones and (in European films) Jan Kiepura and Richard
Tauber. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
I suppose one could also include "pop" tenor
Dick Powell, not to mention popular radio
crooner (and occasional film actor) Kenny
Baker, whose "Just You Wait and See"

Very similar, those two. I once saw Baker as "Nanki-Poo" in "The
Mikado".

I've seen that performance of the Mikado with Baker. I think it's from
the late 1930s. I thought it was very entertaining, including Baker's
performance.
I've noticed that her half-sister, Roslynd Kind, has, as might be

Post by Leonard Tillman
expected, a striking vocal similarity, a less-intense, milder persona
and seemingly more affability. - But wasn't destined for comparable
renown.

Agree 100%. I haven't heard much of Kind's singing, but what I have
heard struck me as conventionally more attractive, but less demotic and
individual than her more famous sibling's singing style.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Leonard Tillman
Incidentally, I mentioned the excellent write-up
that Kathryn received from the GROVE
DICTIONARY OF MUSIC a while back,
Deanna also received a fine write-up from
GROVE, which referenced her pervasive

<<Although [Durbin's] Hollywood career lasted only 13 years, she made a
lasting impression as the quintessential precocious innocent with a
natural vocal charm. She received a special Academy Award in 1938. The
possessor of a legitimate soprano voice with a wide range, Durbin had
the technical ability to use all areas of the voice effectively. She is
a rare example of a singer who was known only for her work in motion
pictures but nonetheless was considered to be a role model for many
young women considering a career on the
operatic and concert stages.>>
"Traubel practically steals the show, and not only vocally. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
Traubel plays her role in DEEP IN MY HEART
with good humor, and I agree that she
manages to grab a good deal of the spotlight
with her good natured performance. As a
vocalist, however, although I love her warm
opulent sound, she still sounds like an opera
singer slumming to me. Still, I've always liked
her in the film, not to mention her radio
appearances with Jimmy Durante.

Their duet, "We wuz born to sing wid each other!" is a classic!

Agreed. They both seem to be having a real ball and delighting in each
other's talents. A couple of real pros (and hams!...in the best sense).

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Leonard Tillman
[....] as the Beecham BOHEME is my favorite
recording, if they were shooting for real opera
singers, I'd probably want Amara.

"I've seen Amara perform Mimi, too, -- many years later. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
How was she? I'd like to think she was as
charming as she is on the recording, but Time
has a way of playing havoc with many voices,
so who knows?

Well, when I saw her "Mimi" some eighteen years later than the great
Beecham recording-date, Amara had lost none of her charm, the voice was
still exciting, and she presented an attractively petite image. I was
told at the time, that she'd substituted for the originally-scheduled
Caballe.

Good to know Amara was still "getting it done" almost twenty years
after that classic Beecham recording. (Which I listened to again
recently after hearing the sad news of de Los Angeles's passing...It's
still marvelous!)

Post by Leonard Tillman
(Re: Jane Powell, losing the Ruth Etting role to Doris Day: )
Reportedly the studio was

Post by Leonard Tillman
planning to re-team Jane and Howard Keel in
a musical version of ROBIN HOOD which
would have probably been a far more worthy
project, but, like the proposed vehicles for
Grayson, it ultimately didn't come to pass.

This might've been one of the genre's and MGM's best-ever!
It occurs to me that Keel would have been equally-suited to play "Little
John"!

Once again, I agree wholeheartedly. And I imagine the petite, pretty
and spirited Powell would have made a lovely "Maid Marian".

Post by Leonard Tillman
(Re: Kirsten's song-album: )
"[....] an album of "tropically-flavored" hits, such as "Poinciana". "

Post by Leonard Tillman
Yes,I have the "pop" recordings Kirsten made
for Columbia on CD and they're excellent.
Like her opera singing, Kirsten's pop stylings
are a little careful and stylized in some
respects, but she certainly understands the
style and demands of pop singing as few
opera divas do (or did, in her day.)

Though a bit restrained, she still managed the spontaneity needed to put
these romantic songs across, so well.

She did indeed. Even today, she remains one of the best operatic
artists to dabble in the genre now labeled "crossover" and can point to
her efforts in this genre as genuine highlights of her career.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Leonard Tillman
Eileen Farrell, of course, was an exception
among "opera" singers in being quite effective
in switching vocal gears and styles (despite
her huge voice) between opera and
"pop/jazz" with equal ease and
comprehension of the disparate styles, and I
thought Robert Merrill and Elly Ameling were
pretty good at it, but most oprea singers
"shoulda stood in bed" rather than attempting
forays into the Great American Songbook
genre.

The worst examples are those who'd continue trilling their "r's", -- no
matter the song! Most useful in parodies of "opera-singers".

Post by Leonard Tillman
Yes, and perhaps one of the worst offenders
in this regard was the otherwise talented
Jeanette MacDonald, who, as a friend of mine
once commented, "Never met an "r" she didn't
roll."

I found this to be about as true of Tibbett and later, Tucker, in their
song-rep, yet, it didn't detract from my enjoyment of their

respective

Post by Leonard Tillman
renditions.

It didn't with me either. Of course, Tibbett's voice and dramatic
passion (combined with that superb diction) were so thrilling I could
forgive him just about anything. I was less impressed (though by no
means unimpressed) by the work of his talented contemporary, John
Charles Thomas.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Leonard Tillman
I admire the skill and intelligence with which
MacDonald managed such a light and fragile
instrument, but her her heavily stylized
vocalism, even in a throwaway novelty
number like "The Dicky Bird Song", clearly
reflects the ascetic lifestyle she readily
adopted to absorb her demanding teacher's
obtuse vocal methods.

I have a bio nearby (of her and Eddy)..... perhaps there are some, if
any, related recollections about her studies.

Is this the one by Professor Edward Baron Turk? If so, it would contain
a good deal of information about Jeanette's vocal studies. I believe
it's called HOLLYWOOD DIVA. Then again, I think this was just a
biography of MacDonald, not MacDonald and Eddy, so your volume may not
be the same one. Incidentally, one exception I did enjoy when MacDoanld
really cut loose was in the otherwise lacklustre, I MARRIED AN ANGEL in
her delightful jitterbugging duet (with Binnie Barnes) to "A Twinkle In
My Eye."

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Leonard Tillman
[....] Beverly Sills was, like Durbin and Powell,
also a radio singing child prodigy and she
sounds dreadful in the pop genre (e.g., her
album of operetta favorites with Sherill Milne
and Julius Rudell is a good argument for
capital punishment for classical singers who
stray into genres they shouldn't), so who
knows?

"In that album, I did love their "Indian Love Call", - but then, it's
Operetta, and was popularized by their not-dissimilar predecessors, Eddy
and MacDonald. "

Actually, when I was speaking of Sills's child prodigy days, I was
thinking more of a short film subject in which she appeared called
UNCLE SOL SOLVES IT, in which she warbled the soprano warhorse,
Arditt's "Il Bacio". Even at the tender age of eight, she was a
remarkable vocalist, however, she was also, regrettably perhaps the
most arch, affected and mannered actress/song stylist I've ever seen.
She looked as if she'd been coached to within an inch of her life by
dozens of people and still wanted to add her own flourishes to her
performance. Still, to be fair, she was only eight years old, and, as I
said, much of what she did in that song was pretty impressive, even if
she was too overtly and deliberately "grand" in her presentation.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Leonard Tillman
Actually, I recall that Sills did do an enjoyable
solo recording of Victor Herbert songs, which
showed off her talents in this area much
better, but I found her performances with
Milnes on their duet album to be impossibly
arch overall, while his were extremely
pompous, almost as if he was channeling Ted
Knight's classic "Ted Baxter" character from
THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW without
the leavening bits of self-parody and humor.

There are testimonies that this description actually doesfit him rather
well, - in his demeanor toward some non-VIPs he's worked with..

Then Thomas Hampson must have some genetic connection to Milnes, for he
also sounds eerily "Ted Baxter-ish" in his snatches of dialogue on the
McGlinn/EMI recording of KISS ME KATE.

Post by Leonard Tillman

Post by Leonard Tillman
(Incidentally, not to speak ill of the dead, but
Farrell cribbed the title of her late 1990s
memoir CAN'T HELP SINGING from the
Jerome Kern/E.Y.Harburg title song of
Deanna Durbin's 1944 Technicolor starrer.
Durbin's performance of this soaring melody
is glorious, but, to the best of my knowledge,
it's a song the talented Farrell never recorded
or sang in public.)

"Has it been sung/recorded by anyone else, since? "

Post by Leonard Tillman
Actually, I think Marni Nixon may have
recorded it on her album of Kern music, and (I
think) I recall hearing Nelson Eddy sing it as
part of a radio tribute to Kern, as well as
hearing Sergio Franchi give it a try on a
variety show.

Ah, yes, that does ring a bell....probably a late '60s Merv Griffin
Show appearance.

Post by Leonard Tillman
Speaking of other singers performing songs
Durbin introduced, another song from CAN'T
HELP SIGNING was the lovely
Oscar-nominated ballad, "More and More".
Shortly after the film premiered, Durbin
reportedly received the following telegram

I want you to know that I was planning to sing "More and More" on my
radio show this evening, but after hearing you do it, I dropped it like
a hot potato. Lady, there's no way I can compete with you!"
Frank Sinatra
Sort of "sounds" like Sinatra! Nice of him to compliment her, so.

Agreed, and based on her performance (a first rate example of beautiful
pianissimo ballad singing) the compliment was entirely deserved.

Post by Leonard Tillman
"You may have just given me an idea for another thread. "

Post by Leonard Tillman
By all means start go with the thought. You
write wonderfully (and insightfully) and I'd
enjoy reading (and possibly contributing) to
any other thoughts/opinions you may have on
these topics.

Many thanks! - And I look forward to reading many more of your posts,
too.

Best,

Post by Leonard Tillman
Leonard Tillman

Same Here. Take Care.

[Leonard Tillman]

From: ***@aol.com (Kultur)

"With Carreras, some pressure from von Karajan may have been involved in
his taking-on of one or more such (heavy)roles.. "

Post by Kultur
I think von Karajan may also have been
involved in convincing Ricciarelli to take on
heavier roles. Not sure though. In any case, a
big mistake in my opinion.

"Aida" (in the Abbado set) wasn't one of her best role-assumptions,
while Freni, OTOH, was excellent in it.

Post by Kultur
Back in the day, budding classical singers like
Joan Sutherland and Elly Ameling, among
others, could be inspired by Deanna Durbin's
onscreen vocals and DECCA recordings
(both have cited Durbin as an important early
influence on their operatic aspirations) not to
mention the work of Powell, Grayson, Moore,
MacDonald, Swarthout, etc.,

"IIRC, Moore inspired Kirsten , too. "

I believe that Moore did more than inspire
Kirsten. I think she was Kirsten's mentor.

Now that you mention it, - she did discuss that once, in an interview.

Post by Kultur
Reportedly after hearing Deanna's national
radio debut on THE SHELL CHATEAU
HOUR on December 26, 1935, on which
Durbin sang the title song from Moore's hit
film ONE NIGHT OF LOVE, Moore reportedly
remarked: "That little girl is a better singer
than I am."

How thrilled DD must have felt, to hear that from Moore!

Post by Kultur
Aspiring tenors by Mario Lanza, Dennis
=A0Morgan, etc.

"Including Alan Jones and (in European films) Jan Kiepura and Richard
Tauber. "

Post by Kultur
I suppose one could also include "pop" tenor
Dick Powell, not to mention popular radio
crooner (and occasional film actor) Kenny
Baker, whose "Just You Wait and See"

"Very similar, those two. I once saw Baker as "Nanki-Poo" in "The
Mikado".

Post by Kultur
I've seen that performance of the Mikado with
Baker. I think it's from the late 1930s. I
thought it was very entertaining, including
Baker's performance.

'39, it turns out. In the film was at least one distinguishted veteran
of the legendary D'Oyly Carte Opera Company, Martyn Green, who, 21 years
later, directed Groucho Marx and an equally-notable cast in a Mikado
tv-adaptation.

(Re: Streisand)

"I've noticed that her half-sister, Roslynd Kind, has, as might be
expected, a striking vocal similarity, a less-intense, milder persona
and seemingly more affability. - But wasn't destined for comparable
renown. "

Post by Kultur
Agree 100%. I haven't heard much of Kind's
singing, but what I have heard struck me as
conventionally more attractive, but less
demotic and individual than her more famous
sibling's singing style.

Reminds me of Corelli mentioning his long-ago visit to the dying Gigli.
A priest was leaving the bedside, and as the two tenor-greats talked,
Gigli:said of his previous visitor

Post by Kultur
"He's my brother. His voice was always
BETTER than mine! Yet, fate decreed I was
to become the famed singer, - and my
brother, the priest."

So, Ms. Kind did become a singer, and an excellent one, but just not
with anywhere
near Barbara's fame.

(Re Traubel's appearances with Jimmy Durante)

"Their duet, "We wuz born to sing wid each other!" is a classic! "

Post by Kultur
Agreed. They both seem to be having a real
ball and delighting in each other's talents. A
couple of real pros (and hams!...in the best
sense).

I suppose their appearances extended to tv?

Post by Kultur
[....] as the Beecham BOHEME is my favorite
recording, if they were shooting for real opera
singers, I'd probably want Amara.

"I've seen Amara perform Mimi, too, -- many years later. "

Post by Kultur
How was she? I'd like to think she was as
charming as she is on the recording, but Time
has a way of playing havoc with many voices,
so who knows?

"Well, when I saw her "Mimi" some eighteen years later than the great
Beecham recording-date, Amara had lost none of her charm, the voice was
still exciting, and she presented an attractively petite image. I was
told at the time, that she'd substituted for the originally-scheduled
Caballe. "

Post by Kultur
Good to know Amara was still "getting it done"
almost twenty years after that classic
Beecham recording. (Which I listened to
again recently after hearing the sad news of
de Los Angeles's passing...It's still
marvelous!)

IMO, it's closest competitor is that of Bergonzi and Tebaldi, the latter
also a recent loss to all of us who admired her so.

(Re: Jane Powell, losing the Ruth Etting role to Doris Day: )

Post by Kultur
Reportedly the studio was
planning to re-team Jane and Howard Keel in
a musical version of ROBIN HOOD which
would have probably been a far more worthy
project, but, like the proposed vehicles for
Grayson, it ultimately didn't come to pass.

=A0=A0=A0=A0"=A0This might've been one of the genre's and MGM's
best-ever! It occurs to me that Keel would have been equally-suited to
play "Little John"! "

Post by Kultur
Once again, I agree wholeheartedly. And I
imagine the petite, pretty and spirited Powell
would have made a lovely "Maid Marian".

I'm wondering who, at them time, would've been cast as Friar Tuck....Guy
of Gisbourne, etc.

(Re: Kirsten's song-album: )

"[....] an album of "tropically-flavored" hits, such as "Poinciana". "

Post by Kultur
Yes,I have the "pop" recordings Kirsten made
for Columbia on CD and they're excellent.
Like her opera singing, Kirsten's pop stylings
are a little careful and stylized in some
respects, but she certainly understands the
style and demands of pop singing as few
opera divas do (or did, in her day.)

"Though a bit restrained, she still managed the spontaneity needed to
put these romantic songs across, so well. "

Post by Kultur
She did indeed. Even today, she remains one
of the best operatic artists to dabble in the
genre now labeled "crossover" and can point
to her efforts in this genre as genuine
highlights of her career.

When remembering Kirsten, that repertory is as much evoked as her Opera
career, to me.

(Re some oldfashioned styles of enunciation)

"The worst examples are those who'd continue trilling their "r's", -- no
matter the song! Most useful in parodies of "opera-singers". "

Post by Kultur
Yes, and perhaps one of the worst offenders
in this regard was the otherwise talented
Jeanette MacDonald, who, as a friend of mine
once commented, "Never met an "r" she didn't
roll."

"I found this to be about as true of Tibbett and later, Tucker, in
their
song-rep, yet, it didn't detract from my enjoyment of their
respective
renditions. "

Post by Kultur
It didn't with me either. Of course, Tibbett's
voice and dramatic passion (combined with
that superb diction) were so thrilling I could
forgive him just about anything. I was less
impressed (though by no means
unimpressed) by the work of his talented
contemporary, John Charles Thomas.

Wonderful baritone, too....a lyric voice, I think, but without as much
of a "bigger-than-life" effect as Tibbett, whose powerful, dark,
dramatic voice seems to "rise from" and out of the vinyl LPs --or CDs--
even while hearing him 70 to 80 years later.

Post by Kultur
I admire the skill and intelligence with which
MacDonald managed such a light and fragile
instrument, but her her heavily stylized
vocalism, even in a throwaway novelty
number like "The Dicky Bird Song", clearly
reflects the ascetic lifestyle she readily
adopted to absorb her demanding teacher's
obtuse vocal methods.

"I have a bio nearby (of her and Eddy)..... perhaps there are some, if
any, related recollections about her studies. "

Is this the one by Professor Edward Baron >Turk? If so, it would contain
a good deal of

Post by Kultur
information about Jeanette's vocal studies. I
believe it's called HOLLYWOOD DIVA. Then
again, I think this was just a biography of
MacDonald, not MacDonald and Eddy, so
your volume may not be the same one.

Right, - it's "The Jeanette MacDonald Story" by James Robert Parish,
published in the mid-'70s.
Seems to focus more on her (along with Eddy's and Gene Raymond's) film
career(s).

Post by Kultur
Incidentally, one exception I did enjoy when
MacDoanld really cut loose was in the
otherwise lacklustre, I MARRIED AN ANGEL
in her delightful jitterbugging duet (with Binnie
Barnes) to "A Twinkle In My Eye."

Barnes was an underrated character actress.

I've never seen Jeanette's '40s film, titled "Smilin' Through", in which
she and her husband, Gene Raymond, were said to give fine dramatic
performances.

Post by Kultur
[....]Actually, when I was speaking of Sills's
child prodigy days, I was thinking more of a
short film subject in which she appeared
called UNCLE SOL SOLVES IT, in which she
warbled the soprano warhorse, Arditt's "Il
Bacio". Even at the tender age of eight, she
was a remarkable vocalist, however, she was
also, regrettably perhaps the most arch,
affected and mannered actress/song stylist
I've ever seen. She looked as if she'd been
coached to within an inch of her life by
dozens of people and still wanted to add her
own flourishes to her performance. Still, to be
fair, she was only eight years old, and, as I
said, much of what she did in that song was
pretty impressive, even if she was too overtly
and deliberately "grand" in her presentation.

She undoubtedly *was* treated as you've supposed. Seems to have been the
MO of "stage mothers", zealous directors, and various "handlers", then
and since.

(re Milnes' interpretational similarity to - )

Post by Kultur
Ted Knight's classic "Ted Baxter" character
from THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW
without the leavening bits of self-parody and
humor.

"There are testimonies that this description actually does fit him
rather well, - in his demeanor toward some non-VIPs he's worked with.. "

Post by Kultur
Then Thomas Hampson must have some
genetic connection to Milnes, for he also
sounds eerily "Ted Baxter-ish" in his snatches
of dialogue on the McGlinn/EMI recording of
KISS ME KATE.

In this, TH seemed slightly stodgier, and several times
more-egotistical!!!

Not a wrong choice, necessarily, since "Fred Graham/Petruccio" is
generally played moreless that way by others, too. Hampson overdid the
"stagey speaking-voice" bit, IMO.

(Re Sinatra's letter of praise to Durbin)

"Sort of "sounds" like Sinatra! Nice of him to compliment her,"

Post by Kultur
Agreed, and based on her performance (a first
rate example of beautiful pianissimo ballad
singing) the compliment was entirely
deserved.

"You may have just given me an idea for another thread. "

Post by Kultur
By all means start go with the thought. You
write wonderfully (and insightfully) and I'd
enjoy reading (and possibly contributing) to
any other thoughts/opinions you may have on
these topics.

"Many thanks! - And I look forward to reading many more of your
posts,
too.
Best,
=A0=A0=A0=A0Leonard Tillman "

Post by Kultur
Same Here. Take Care.

Best,

Leonard Tillman