Discussion:
Tebaldi a LESBIAN???
(too old to reply)
Ortrud
2005-12-21 20:03:46 UTC
Permalink
A dear friend of mine told me that Tebaldi had a female companion of
the Sapphic nature. Is this true? Did our dear Renata munch carpet?
Ack!

-Ortrud Jones
LJO
2005-12-21 20:06:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ortrud
A dear friend of mine told me that Tebaldi had a female companion of
the Sapphic nature. Is this true? Did our dear Renata munch carpet?
Ack!
No, she was a Republican.
Ortrud
2005-12-21 20:08:46 UTC
Permalink
Oh, is that it? Whew! Was worried for a second!

lol,
-Ortrud Jones
Post by LJO
Post by Ortrud
A dear friend of mine told me that Tebaldi had a female companion of
the Sapphic nature. Is this true? Did our dear Renata munch carpet?
Ack!
No, she was a Republican.
a***@comcast.net
2005-12-21 20:26:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by LJO
No, she was a Republican.
Astounding, the depths of depravity we ascribe to our heros & heroines.
A Republican . . . . . . . . triste.
St. André de la Gauche
LJO
2005-12-21 20:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@comcast.net
Post by LJO
No, she was a Republican.
Astounding, the depths of depravity we ascribe to our heros & heroines.
A Republican . . . . . . . . triste.
St. André de la Gauche
Well, she wasn't actually a real Republican. She just played one in the
opera. And she always paid her taxes. And her taxis.

Trusting you're refreshed,
LJO
a***@comcast.net
2005-12-21 20:40:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by LJO
Post by a***@comcast.net
Post by LJO
No, she was a Republican.
Astounding, the depths of depravity we ascribe to our heros & heroines.
A Republican . . . . . . . . triste.
St. André de la Gauche
Well, she wasn't actually a real Republican. She just played one in the
opera. And she always paid her taxes. And her taxis.
Trusting you're refreshed,
LJO
Refreshed, and of course, greatly relieved.
St. A.
Un Bel Di di Joe Di Maggio
2005-12-21 23:30:44 UTC
Permalink
No..Tebaldi was a great lirico-spinto soprano.Those who mention other
things are total morons..but then..this IS rmo..ch
Doge Boccanegra
2005-12-21 23:48:16 UTC
Permalink
I was sickened when the jibes started about her private life began when
she was not even cold.

Doge
LJO
2005-12-21 23:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Un Bel Di di Joe Di Maggio
No..Tebaldi was a great lirico-spinto soprano.Those who mention other
things are total morons..but then..this IS rmo..ch
But why couldn't she have been a great lesbo-lirico-spinto soprano? Not that
there's anything wrong with that . .
La Donna Mobile
2005-12-21 23:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by LJO
Post by Un Bel Di di Joe Di Maggio
No..Tebaldi was a great lirico-spinto soprano.Those who mention other
things are total morons..but then..this IS rmo..ch
But why couldn't she have been a great lesbo-lirico-spinto soprano? Not that
there's anything wrong with that . .
ch seems to forget that this subject was discussed at great length and
with great vitriol, bigotry and hatred on one of his nice forums just a
few months ago.
--
http://www.madmusingsof.me.uk/weblog/
http://www.geraldine-curtis.me.uk/photoblog/
LJO
2005-12-22 00:41:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by La Donna Mobile
Post by LJO
Post by Un Bel Di di Joe Di Maggio
No..Tebaldi was a great lirico-spinto soprano.Those who mention other
things are total morons..but then..this IS rmo..ch
But why couldn't she have been a great lesbo-lirico-spinto soprano? Not that
there's anything wrong with that . .
ch seems to forget that this subject was discussed at great length and
with great vitriol, bigotry and hatred on one of his nice forums just a
few months ago.
CH is a very busy man. He can't be expected to remember to remember all the
details of his murky past.
a***@aol.com
2005-12-22 01:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by La Donna Mobile
ch seems to forget that this subject was discussed at great length and
with great vitriol, bigotry and hatred on one of his nice forums just a
few months ago.
Surely not? I cannot imagine Mr Handelman being associated with a
forum like that. I thought all the others he subscribed to consisted
only of "nice" people. No?

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
Un Bel Di di Joe Di Maggio
2005-12-22 00:43:14 UTC
Permalink
We need Tritter back so he can put the Ball-man (only one of them)..in
his usual latrine hole...ch
LJO
2005-12-22 01:21:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Un Bel Di di Joe Di Maggio
We need Tritter back so he can put the Ball-man (only one of them)..in
his usual latrine hole...ch
Oh yeah! Dan would straighten things out in a hurry . . no doubt about it.
Nothing shuts a man up quicker than one of his fecal zingers. It's all that
legal training.
d***@aol.com
2005-12-21 23:45:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by LJO
No, she was a Republican
Renata Tebaldi did have an amusing interaction with an American
political party: the followers of Lyndon Larouche. Incredible as it
may seem, Larouche has policies concerning classical music. One plank
in his platform is the lowering of the diapason. Another is an
endorsement of a very influential branch of music theory developed by
Heinrich Schenker. The LaRouchites or whatever they're called
approached Tebaldi and asked her to sign a petition or some such
document in favor of lowering the diapason. She had no idea who the
LaRouchies were and signed. Later she was embarrased to discover who
they were and quickly distanced herself from them.

-david gable
LJO
2005-12-22 00:01:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@aol.com
Post by LJO
No, she was a Republican
Renata Tebaldi did have an amusing interaction with an American
political party: the followers of Lyndon Larouche. Incredible as it
may seem, Larouche has policies concerning classical music. One plank
in his platform is the lowering of the diapason. Another is an
endorsement of a very influential branch of music theory developed by
Heinrich Schenker. The LaRouchites or whatever they're called
approached Tebaldi and asked her to sign a petition or some such
document in favor of lowering the diapason. She had no idea who the
LaRouchies were and signed. Later she was embarrased to discover who
they were and quickly distanced herself from them.
-david gable
Well I'll be hornswoggled! It seems that the Schiller Institute is still
beating that drum, and they seem to be implying that Carlo Bergonzi is in
cahoots with them. Look at this:

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/programs/program_bergonzi_4-8-93.html
Silverfin
2005-12-22 11:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@aol.com
Post by LJO
No, she was a Republican
Renata Tebaldi did have an amusing interaction with an American
political party: the followers of Lyndon Larouche. Incredible as it
may seem, Larouche has policies concerning classical music. One plank
in his platform is the lowering of the diapason. Another is an
endorsement of a very influential branch of music theory developed by
Heinrich Schenker.
Now there's a name I haven't heard in years!
Memories of Schenkerian Analysis classes in the first year at
university. If I remember rightly I came top in my year, but I'd still
like someone to explain to me what actual use it is?

Silverfin

On the subject of possibly lesbian singers (didn't we have a long
thread about it on here not so long ago?), I think it's a shame that we
still have a situation where non-hetero performers often feel unable to
be open about their same-sex partners in the way that most hetero ones
are about their wives and husbands (in interviews, etc). It's *so* not
a big deal (to most intelligent people) these days, who a person
chooses to sleep with - and yet the press will make a meal of it.
Stelucia, Studer Troll's foe
2005-12-22 11:26:46 UTC
Permalink
People who choose to live a celibate life often are accused to be
closet homosexuals. We live in a society that no longer accepts that
some people may choose to live alone and not have sex, whether for
religious or other reasons.
Mrs Terfel
2005-12-22 12:12:09 UTC
Permalink
And single straight women have to suffer this sort of prejudice too.
I'm fed up of all the comments from people (including my own family)
about why I'm not married yet. Why do some people assume that if a
woman is still single by the time she hits 30 that she must either be a
closet lesbian or there's something "wrong" with her?

It's not my fault that all the attractive baritones are already
married! (sulk)

Mrs T xx
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
2005-12-22 16:19:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mrs Terfel
And single straight women have to suffer this sort of prejudice too.
I'm fed up of all the comments from people (including my own family)
about why I'm not married yet. Why do some people assume that if a
woman is still single by the time she hits 30 that she must either be a
closet lesbian or there's something "wrong" with her?
Does that attitude still exist? The major mistake (more
than any other) that put "paid" to my aspirations to a
singing career was giving in to that pressure and taking a
husband. (When I SHOULD have taken a trip to Europe for
purposes of auditioning for small opera companies, instead.)
Post by Mrs Terfel
It's not my fault that all the attractive baritones are already
married! (sulk)
Actually, he WAS an "attractive baritone" (but that was his
only good point, and he didn't really CARE about being
anything but an unemployed leech).
Mrs Terfel
2005-12-22 16:42:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Post by Mrs Terfel
And single straight women have to suffer this sort of prejudice too.
I'm fed up of all the comments from people (including my own family)
about why I'm not married yet. Why do some people assume that if a
woman is still single by the time she hits 30 that she must either be a
closet lesbian or there's something "wrong" with her?
Does that attitude still exist?
Unfortunately that attitude is still alive and very well. Have you
not seen the film Bridget Jones? There is a whole generation of
attractive single 30-something British females with good careers who
are under pressure to get married - especially from their mothers!!!!

Mrs T xx
Stelucia, Studer Troll's foe
2005-12-22 17:07:01 UTC
Permalink
This is not confined to the 30-something group. I am on the wrong side
of the forties and divorced, yet people (own Mum, Mum's neighbours,
friends, etc) ask me why I don't have a partner. Even my
ex-mother-in-law (yes former mother-in-law!) told me recently that she
prayed daily for me, to get a man. Not to her son, he's married now to
someone else :-)
Un Bel Di di Joe Di Maggio
2005-12-22 17:25:23 UTC
Permalink
JEWISH MOM: "Why don't you get married?"

SON: "Look ma,I am not ready."

MOM "But you're 35!!!"

SON: "Sorry..not yet."

(Time passes)

SON: "MA..I have good news and bad news!"

MOM: NU??? Tell me the good news first."

SON: I am getting MARRIED!!!!!!

MOM: OI VEY....That is great...What is the bad news???"

SON: "It's a GUY!!!!"

MOM: "That is fine...as long as he's Jewish!!!"
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
2005-12-23 02:39:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mrs Terfel
Post by EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Does that attitude still exist?
Unfortunately that attitude is still alive and very well. Have you
not seen the film Bridget Jones? There is a whole generation of
attractive single 30-something British females with good careers who
are under pressure to get married - especially from their mothers!!!!
Oh, of COURSE their mothers! (Even if Mama's marriage(s)
failed, they all want grandchildren (preferably "legitimate".)
Mrs Terfel
2005-12-23 09:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Post by EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Oh, of COURSE their mothers! (Even if Mama's marriage(s)
failed, they all want grandchildren (preferably "legitimate".)
My father has admitted to me that my mother is "disappointed" that I'm
not married because she wants grandchildren. It's something that
really annoys me - because I have a good career, my own house, my own
car and don't need to rely on *any* man for financial support - but
there are still some people who "pity" me because I don't have a man.


Ironically, I spend so much of my time on the phone listening to female
friends who *do* have men moaning about how bloody miserable they are
all the time and how lucky I am *not* to have children. I would much
rather be single and happy then in an unhappy relationship.

Mrs T xx
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
2005-12-23 12:25:48 UTC
Permalink
Dear Heart: You seem to be in control of your own destiny...leave it at
that!

Should the folks raise the issue again...just kindly remind them that it's
your life after all...but that you still love them...and who knows what the
future holds. But that you won't buy a pig in a poke...nor should they
pressure you to so do!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year-

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
Post by Mrs Terfel
Post by EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Post by EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Oh, of COURSE their mothers! (Even if Mama's marriage(s)
failed, they all want grandchildren (preferably "legitimate".)
My father has admitted to me that my mother is "disappointed" that I'm
not married because she wants grandchildren. It's something that
really annoys me - because I have a good career, my own house, my own
car and don't need to rely on *any* man for financial support - but
there are still some people who "pity" me because I don't have a man.
Ironically, I spend so much of my time on the phone listening to female
friends who *do* have men moaning about how bloody miserable they are
all the time and how lucky I am *not* to have children. I would much
rather be single and happy then in an unhappy relationship.
Mrs T xx
Mrs Terfel
2005-12-23 13:02:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
Dear Heart: You seem to be in control of your own destiny...leave it at
that!
Thanks! Didn't Faust sing something along the lines of "Je suis le
seul maitre de mon destin"? (no libretto with me, so am relying on my
memory)

I always loved that line - even if he does sing it when thinking of
killing himself!!!

Yes - will do my best to ignore the comments from elderly female
relatives about my "shameful" single status. My mother (a modern day
Mrs Bennet) is always trying to find eligible bachelors for me.... she
asked me earlier this year - perfectly innocently - "How about that
nice Welsh chap that you're always going to see. Is he single?"

I realise now that I don't particularly want to be married per se -
it's just the whole idea of the church service, the nice big dress and
the whole white wedding that appeals to me. Too much Jane Austen while
growing up :-)

Hope you have a great Christmas too. I'm still hungover from last
night after going out drinking with La Donna, Silverfin, Mrs Jones,
Stelucia and Leonora (Mrs Hampson). It was a very fun evening but I
shouldn't have had quite so much wine.

Mrs T xx
Ken Meltzer
2005-12-23 13:07:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mrs Terfel
Post by Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
Dear Heart: You seem to be in control of your own destiny...leave it at
that!
Thanks! Didn't Faust sing something along the lines of "Je suis le
seul maitre de mon destin"? (no libretto with me, so am relying on my
memory)
I always loved that line - even if he does sing it when thinking of
killing himself!!!
Right, he's holding poison in his hand ("Et je suis, avec ce breuvage,
le seul maitre de mon destin
!")
Of course, subsequent events sort of belie his statement, but that's
another story!
Best,
Ken
Mrs Terfel
2005-12-23 13:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Meltzer
Post by Ken Meltzer
Right, he's holding poison in his hand ("Et je suis, avec ce breuvage,
le seul maitre de mon destin
!")
Of course, subsequent events sort of belie his statement, but that's
another story!
Best,
Ken
Thanks, Ken. I knew it was something like that! Actually, there are
lots of really beautiful lines in the text of the Gounod - my favourite
is probably during Valentin's death scene when he sings:

"Ce qui doit arriver, arive à l'heure dite!
La mort nous frappe quand il faut,
Et chacun obéit aux volontés d'en haut"

(Found the libretto online now!!!) I love that line!!!! And it's so
true....

Mrs T xx
Mrs Terfel
2005-12-23 13:22:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Meltzer
Right, he's holding poison in his hand ("Et je suis, avec ce breuvage,
le seul maitre de mon destin
Thanks, Ken. I knew it was something like that! Actually, there are
lots of really beautiful lines in the text of the Gounod - my favourite

is probably during Valentin's death scene when he sings:

"Ce qui doit arriver, arrive à l'heure dite!
La mort nous frappe quand il faut,
Et chacun obéit aux volontés d'en haut"

(Found the libretto online now!!!) I just love that bit !!!! And
it's so
true........well, I think so anyway!

Mrs T xx
Ken Meltzer
2005-12-23 13:27:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mrs Terfel
Post by Ken Meltzer
Right, he's holding poison in his hand ("Et je suis, avec ce breuvage,
le seul maitre de mon destin
Thanks, Ken. I knew it was something like that! Actually, there are
lots of really beautiful lines in the text of the Gounod - my favourite
"Ce qui doit arriver, arrive à l'heure dite!
La mort nous frappe quand il faut,
Et chacun obéit aux volontés d'en haut"
(Found the libretto online now!!!) I just love that bit !!!! And
it's so
true........well, I think so anyway!
Mrs T xx
And the music's not too shabby, either!
Happy Holidays, Mrs. T!!
Best,
Ken
Mrs Terfel
2005-12-23 13:33:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Meltzer
Post by Ken Meltzer
And the music's not too shabby, either!
Happy Holidays, Mrs. T!!
Best,
Ken
You too, Ken! I don't know why so many people look down on Faust as
being an inferior opera. Sure, it's got weak moments but it has some
beautiful music, a great story and I'm going to risk controversy and
declare that I actually prefer Faust to Carmen.

Wasn't Carmen a closet lesbian too, by the way?? :-)

Mrs T xx
Ken Meltzer
2005-12-23 13:41:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mrs Terfel
Post by Ken Meltzer
Post by Ken Meltzer
And the music's not too shabby, either!
Happy Holidays, Mrs. T!!
Best,
Ken
You too, Ken! I don't know why so many people look down on Faust as
being an inferior opera. Sure, it's got weak moments but it has some
beautiful music, a great story and I'm going to risk controversy and
declare that I actually prefer Faust to Carmen.
I'm really biased, because Faust was the very first opera I ever heard.
It was taught to us by my high school French teather, who used the
opera as part of his language curriculum. That made me a lifelong
opera fanatic, and Faust has always remained a favorite of mine.
Post by Mrs Terfel
Wasn't Carmen a closet lesbian too, by the way?? :-)
Mrs T xx
Ask Frasquita and Mercedes!
Best,
Ken
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
2005-12-23 17:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mrs Terfel
Post by Ken Meltzer
Post by Ken Meltzer
And the music's not too shabby, either!
Happy Holidays, Mrs. T!!
Best,
Ken
You too, Ken! I don't know why so many people look down on Faust as
being an inferior opera. Sure, it's got weak moments but it has some
beautiful music, a great story and I'm going to risk controversy and
declare that I actually prefer Faust to Carmen.
Wasn't Carmen a closet lesbian too, by the way?? :-)
No, just a free spirit who didn't want to be tied down to
any one man!
Post by Mrs Terfel
Mrs T xx
La Donna Mobile
2005-12-23 16:42:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mrs Terfel
Post by Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
Dear Heart: You seem to be in control of your own destiny...leave it at
that!
Thanks! Didn't Faust sing something along the lines of "Je suis le
seul maitre de mon destin"? (no libretto with me, so am relying on my
memory)
I always loved that line - even if he does sing it when thinking of
killing himself!!!
Yes - will do my best to ignore the comments from elderly female
relatives about my "shameful" single status. My mother (a modern day
Mrs Bennet) is always trying to find eligible bachelors for me.... she
asked me earlier this year - perfectly innocently - "How about that
nice Welsh chap that you're always going to see. Is he single?"
I realise now that I don't particularly want to be married per se -
it's just the whole idea of the church service, the nice big dress and
the whole white wedding that appeals to me. Too much Jane Austen while
growing up :-)
Hope you have a great Christmas too. I'm still hungover from last
night after going out drinking with La Donna, Silverfin, Mrs Jones,
Stelucia and Leonora (Mrs Hampson). It was a very fun evening but I
shouldn't have had quite so much wine.
Mrs T xx
Hungover? Tell me about it!
--
http://www.madmusingsof.me.uk/weblog/
http://www.geraldine-curtis.me.uk/photoblog/
Mrs Terfel
2005-12-23 17:46:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by La Donna Mobile
Hungover? Tell me about it!
I was so out of it at work this morning that I accidentally wished one
of my German suppliers a very happy Easter ! Still, it was a very
fun evening and a shame some of the others on ROH missed out on our
interesting chats about why Boccelli is so famous, Warbing Barbie's
breath control problems, Dmitri's cold haughty reserved version of
Wotan's farewell ("Bye!" - exit) and the other stuff.

Actually, a lot of the other stuff probably couldn't be repeated in
male company..... :-)

Mrs T xx
La Donna Mobile
2005-12-23 18:56:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mrs Terfel
Post by La Donna Mobile
Hungover? Tell me about it!
I was so out of it at work this morning that I accidentally wished one
of my German suppliers a very happy Easter ! Still, it was a very
fun evening and a shame some of the others on ROH missed out on our
interesting chats about why Boccelli is so famous, Warbing Barbie's
breath control problems,
I was actually thinking whether I could pick up a cheap Barbie in
Woolies and bring her along - (but Bratz are cooler...)
Post by Mrs Terfel
Dmitri's cold haughty reserved version of
Wotan's farewell ("Bye!" - exit) and the other stuff.
Actually, a lot of the other stuff probably couldn't be repeated in
male company..... :-)
Mrs T xx
Yes, it's all slowly coming back to me... ignore my advice about the
pint in the Nag's Head, I think I focused too much on that as an end,
rather than a means to an end. But I'd still advocate a subtle rather
than direct approach eg a pint in the Nag's Head

And can I just make it clear, I don't have sexual fantasies about Colin
Davis.

Yeah, where were the blokes?

And I never got to ask you about Mr Funlay...!
--
http://www.madmusingsof.me.uk/weblog/
http://www.geraldine-curtis.me.uk/photoblog/
Mrs Terfel
2005-12-23 20:08:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by La Donna Mobile
Post by La Donna Mobile
And can I just make it clear, I don't have sexual fantasies about Colin
Davis.
Likewise about Angelina Jolie !!!
Post by La Donna Mobile
Yeah, where were the blokes?
Who cares? :-) We couldn't have had some of the more interesting
discussions if there had been any gentlemen or Steve Silverman present.
Post by La Donna Mobile
And I never got to ask you about Mr Funlay...!
Pretty sure I saw him walking down Floral Street earlier in the
evening, but I might have been mistaken.

Mrs T xx
Steve Silverman
2005-12-23 20:14:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mrs Terfel
Who cares? :-) We couldn't have had some of the more interesting
discussions if there had been any gentlemen or Steve Silverman present.
Sorry I couldn't make it. Work got in the way I'm afraid. Anyway, you know
nothing shocks me (think book of etiquette).

Steve Silverman
Mrs Terfel
2005-12-23 20:22:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Silverman
Sorry I couldn't make it. Work got in the way I'm afraid. Anyway, you know
nothing shocks me (think book of etiquette).
Steve Silverman
It was a real shame you couldn't make it - as there was a very nice
Christmas present waiting for you and we all wanted to see the look on
your face when you opened it.

But you'll be pleased to know that everyone liked the Ruddigore photos.


Mrs T xx
La Donna Mobile
2005-12-23 20:24:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mrs Terfel
Post by Steve Silverman
Sorry I couldn't make it. Work got in the way I'm afraid. Anyway, you know
nothing shocks me (think book of etiquette).
Steve Silverman
It was a real shame you couldn't make it - as there was a very nice
Christmas present waiting for you and we all wanted to see the look on
your face when you opened it.
But you'll be pleased to know that everyone liked the Ruddigore photos.
Mrs T xx
And if Steve doesn't get it through his door,we'll know you've kept if
for yourself, like you couldn't resist...!
--
http://www.madmusingsof.me.uk/weblog/
http://www.geraldine-curtis.me.uk/photoblog/
Mrs Terfel
2005-12-23 20:31:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by La Donna Mobile
And if Steve doesn't get it through his door,we'll know you've kept if
for yourself, like you couldn't resist...!
You might joke, but I know full well that you desperately wanted one
for yourself but were just too embarrassed to go out and buy it.

Mrs T xx
Steve Silverman
2005-12-23 20:29:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mrs Terfel
It was a real shame you couldn't make it - as there was a very nice
Christmas present waiting for you and we all wanted to see the look on
your face when you opened it.
Damn! Any chance of you coming down my chimney?

Steve Silverman
Mrs Terfel
2005-12-23 20:55:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Silverman
Damn! Any chance of you coming down my chimney?
Steve Silverman
Sorry, Steve - but I'd never be able to get up onto your roof because
of the 6 foot high neon Santa and all the reindeer you have on there.
To be fair, I think maybe you went a bit over the top with all the
lights on your house this year. There were so many people stopping to
take photographs of it that it totally blocked the road to Lakeside.

For those of you not lucky enough to have seen the lovely lights on
Steve's house then I've generously provided a link to a photo of it
below:

http://www.chavscum.co.uk/4images/details.php?image_id=3910&sessionid=9a9b04ac8dcdb98321f8af35140cefef

With lots of love

Mrs T xx
Silverfin
2005-12-23 22:41:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by La Donna Mobile
Post by Mrs Terfel
I'm still hungover from last
night after going out drinking with La Donna, Silverfin, Mrs Jones,
Stelucia and Leonora (Mrs Hampson). It was a very fun evening but I
shouldn't have had quite so much wine.
Mrs T xx
Hungover? Tell me about it!
Ouch.

Silverfin
La Donna Mobile
2005-12-23 01:17:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mrs Terfel
And single straight women have to suffer this sort of prejudice too.
I'm fed up of all the comments from people (including my own family)
about why I'm not married yet. Why do some people assume that if a
woman is still single by the time she hits 30 that she must either be a
closet lesbian or there's something "wrong" with her?
Does that attitude still exist? The major mistake (more than any
other) that put "paid" to my aspirations to a singing career was
giving in to that pressure and taking a husband. (When I SHOULD have
taken a trip to Europe for purposes of auditioning for small opera
companies, instead.)
Yup,my friend, whose 40th I vaguely remember spends most family do's
tied in knots as various aunts, step cousins-in-law etc assume that
she's a lesbian and she spends the whole time going "well, I'm not, but
if you want to think that it's not a problem, but I'm not, but it isn't
an issue to me, but, but but...."
Post by Mrs Terfel
It's not my fault that all the attractive baritones are already
married! (sulk)
Actually, he WAS an "attractive baritone" (but that was his only good
point, and he didn't really CARE about being anything but an
unemployed leech).
--
http://www.madmusingsof.me.uk/weblog/
http://www.geraldine-curtis.me.uk/photoblog/
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
2005-12-22 16:12:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stelucia, Studer Troll's foe
People who choose to live a celibate life often are accused to be
closet homosexuals. We live in a society that no longer accepts that
some people may choose to live alone and not have sex, whether for
religious or other reasons.
Or choose not to marry, and feel any extra-marital affaires
are no one's business but their own? (One wonders how
fulfilling are the lives of those who are so pruriently
curious about celebrities' personal lives?)
La Donna Mobile
2005-12-22 13:20:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silverfin
Post by d***@aol.com
Post by LJO
No, she was a Republican
Renata Tebaldi did have an amusing interaction with an American
political party: the followers of Lyndon Larouche. Incredible as it
may seem, Larouche has policies concerning classical music. One plank
in his platform is the lowering of the diapason. Another is an
endorsement of a very influential branch of music theory developed by
Heinrich Schenker.
Now there's a name I haven't heard in years!
Memories of Schenkerian Analysis classes in the first year at
university. If I remember rightly I came top in my year, but I'd still
like someone to explain to me what actual use it is?
Silverfin
On the subject of possibly lesbian singers (didn't we have a long
thread about it on here not so long ago?), I think it's a shame that we
still have a situation where non-hetero performers often feel unable to
be open about their same-sex partners in the way that most hetero ones
are about their wives and husbands (in interviews, etc). It's *so* not
a big deal (to most intelligent people) these days, who a person
chooses to sleep with - and yet the press will make a meal of it.
I agree with you in principle, but, actually, I think the Press are lot
more accepting than swathes of the general public - eg I'm loving all
the media coverage of Elton John/David Furnish's wedding because I
think it's sending out such a powerful message. But there are far too
many bigots who believe they can impose their immorality on other
people eg those ghastly people protesting in Belfast on Monday who are
so filled with hatred and self-loathing they can't stand the fact that
other people are capable of loving and being loved, and they attempt to
use god to justify their hatred.

Eg the fact that whenever this or related subject crops up on an opera
newsgroup (and indeed, elsewhere) there's always people who come up
with some mealy-mouthed crap about is it necessary that we really know,
blah blah? Now I accept that there are people who are genuinely
entirely uninterested in the private lives of other people, but, IME,
in general, those who shout the loudest about not wanting to know
whether someone's gay are those that need to tell you about their
children, or project inappropriate/incorrect assumptions onto others.

And then there are those who insist it essential that we know, citing
numerous biographers of numerous people from various walks of life who
have posthumously unearthed previously unknown facts, and trying to
claim that speculation on a newsgroup is somehow equivalent to the
painstaking research and corroborated evidence from reliable sources
used by a reputable biographer.

There is the point of view that it is out of order to indulge in any
speculation about dead people because they can't answer back. In an
ideal world, it would not be seen as being any more inappropriate to
discuss Tebaldi's supposed (or not) homosexuality than it would be to
discuss, for example, Callas's relationship with Onassis. But we don't
live in that ideal world, and there are far too many people who will
accept heterosexuality as fact, but assume that any suggestions of
homosexuality are a matter of great shame.
t***@yahoo.com
2005-12-22 13:36:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by La Donna Mobile
But we don't
live in that ideal world, and there are far too many people who will
accept heterosexuality as fact, but assume that any suggestions of
homosexuality are a matter of great shame.
well formulated, Donna !!

th.....e froggy fag (or was it faggy frog? I'll have to ask toad)
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
2005-12-22 16:08:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silverfin
On the subject of possibly lesbian singers (didn't we have a long
thread about it on here not so long ago?), I think it's a shame that we
still have a situation where non-hetero performers often feel unable to
be open about their same-sex partners in the way that most hetero ones
are about their wives and husbands (in interviews, etc). It's *so* not
a big deal (to most intelligent people) these days, who a person
chooses to sleep with - and yet the press will make a meal of it.
Of course, there ARE heterosexual singers (of both genders)
who simply feel they don't have TIME for both marriage and a
career! This may be more true for females than for males,
because it takes a rare male ego not to feel threatened by a
wife whose career and/or fame eclipse his. (Women are more
accustomed to taking a secondary role in their partners'
lives.)
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
2005-12-22 14:38:43 UTC
Permalink
Just what blithering asshole was it that began this disgusting thread? It
most certainly cannot be someone who enjoyed her artistry...or opera.

It would appear to be someone who simply cannot stand the idea of not seeing
his/hers name mentioned on an RMO post or anywhere for that
matter...including latrine stalls.

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
Post by d***@aol.com
Post by LJO
No, she was a Republican
Renata Tebaldi did have an amusing interaction with an American
political party: the followers of Lyndon Larouche. Incredible as it
may seem, Larouche has policies concerning classical music. One plank
in his platform is the lowering of the diapason. Another is an
endorsement of a very influential branch of music theory developed by
Heinrich Schenker. The LaRouchites or whatever they're called
approached Tebaldi and asked her to sign a petition or some such
document in favor of lowering the diapason. She had no idea who the
LaRouchies were and signed. Later she was embarrased to discover who
they were and quickly distanced herself from them.
-david gable
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
2005-12-22 16:35:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
Just what blithering asshole was it that began this disgusting thread? It
most certainly cannot be someone who enjoyed her artistry...or opera.
It would appear to be someone who simply cannot stand the idea of not seeing
his/hers name mentioned on an RMO post or anywhere for that
matter...including latrine stalls.
I share your perception that most such discussions are pure
prurience, Jon. I also feel that, if an artist wants to
keep his/her personal life private, it should not occasion
such idle speculation on these newsgroups. Like you, even
though I never quite made it to professional status, I have
known enough gay people (openly gay, since it ceased to be a
"crime") to realize that they are no different from anyone
else, regardless of sexual orientation. Difficult as it
seems for some people to believe, performing artists are
generally much more focused on their art than their choice
of sexual partners. In lives so largely lived in public,
they should be entitled to keep the personal parts of them
private, unless they choose otherwise.
La Donna Mobile
2005-12-23 01:24:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
Just what blithering asshole was it that began this disgusting
thread? It most certainly cannot be someone who enjoyed her
artistry...or opera.
It would appear to be someone who simply cannot stand the idea of not
seeing his/hers name mentioned on an RMO post or anywhere for that
matter...including latrine stalls.
I share your perception that most such discussions are pure prurience,
Jon. I also feel that, if an artist wants to keep his/her personal
life private, it should not occasion such idle speculation on these
newsgroups. Like you, even though I never quite made it to
professional status, I have known enough gay people (openly gay, since
it ceased to be a "crime") to realize that they are no different from
anyone else, regardless of sexual orientation. Difficult as it seems
for some people to believe, performing artists are generally much more
focused on their art than their choice of sexual partners. In lives
so largely lived in public, they should be entitled to keep the
personal parts of them private, unless they choose otherwise.
But a great number of 'celebrities' do make their private life public. I
don't just mean the A-list trailer trash who sell their stories for a
fortune, but if you read an interview in the so-called 'quality'
newspapers with 'our' celebrities, many of them make passing comment as
to their private circumstances. In the past month or so, I have read
interviews with Charles Mackerras, Renee Fleming, Gerry Finley, Toby
Spence, which make reference to their partners and/or children. I was
walking through my office building this evening and overheard two
snippets of conversation with the words "my wife" "my husband". They're
not *flaunting* their heterosexuality but they are introducing names
into conversation, probably without deep thought, with the expectation
that their audience will just assume the existence of
wife/husband/children and not make a big deal - why should it be
different for gay people?
--
http://www.madmusingsof.me.uk/weblog/
http://www.geraldine-curtis.me.uk/photoblog/
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
2005-12-23 02:43:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by La Donna Mobile
Post by Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
Just what blithering asshole was it that began this disgusting
thread? It most certainly cannot be someone who enjoyed her
artistry...or opera.
It would appear to be someone who simply cannot stand the idea of not
seeing his/hers name mentioned on an RMO post or anywhere for that
matter...including latrine stalls.
I share your perception that most such discussions are pure prurience,
Jon. I also feel that, if an artist wants to keep his/her personal
life private, it should not occasion such idle speculation on these
newsgroups. Like you, even though I never quite made it to
professional status, I have known enough gay people (openly gay, since
it ceased to be a "crime") to realize that they are no different from
anyone else, regardless of sexual orientation. Difficult as it seems
for some people to believe, performing artists are generally much more
focused on their art than their choice of sexual partners. In lives
so largely lived in public, they should be entitled to keep the
personal parts of them private, unless they choose otherwise.
But a great number of 'celebrities' do make their private life public. I
don't just mean the A-list trailer trash who sell their stories for a
fortune, but if you read an interview in the so-called 'quality'
newspapers with 'our' celebrities, many of them make passing comment as
to their private circumstances. In the past month or so, I have read
interviews with Charles Mackerras, Renee Fleming, Gerry Finley, Toby
Spence, which make reference to their partners and/or children. I was
walking through my office building this evening and overheard two
snippets of conversation with the words "my wife" "my husband". They're
not *flaunting* their heterosexuality but they are introducing names
into conversation, probably without deep thought, with the expectation
that their audience will just assume the existence of
wife/husband/children and not make a big deal - why should it be
different for gay people?
It SHOULDN'T, that wasn't my point! But if people choose
NOT to talk about their personal lives, their choice should
be respected.
Silverfin
2005-12-23 08:11:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Post by La Donna Mobile
But a great number of 'celebrities' do make their private life public. I
don't just mean the A-list trailer trash who sell their stories for a
fortune, but if you read an interview in the so-called 'quality'
newspapers with 'our' celebrities, many of them make passing comment as
to their private circumstances. In the past month or so, I have read
interviews with Charles Mackerras, Renee Fleming, Gerry Finley, Toby
Spence, which make reference to their partners and/or children. I was
walking through my office building this evening and overheard two
snippets of conversation with the words "my wife" "my husband". They're
not *flaunting* their heterosexuality but they are introducing names
into conversation, probably without deep thought, with the expectation
that their audience will just assume the existence of
wife/husband/children and not make a big deal - why should it be
different for gay people?
It SHOULDN'T, that wasn't my point! But if people choose
NOT to talk about their personal lives, their choice should
be respected.
I don't think anyone is arguing with you about people's right to choose
not to talk about their private lives. I was making a similar point to
La Donna, I think, that a decision whether to mention their personal
lives in interviews or not, should ideally not have anything to do with
their sexuality. I am glad that you have encountered gay openly gay
singers, but how often is it mentioned in interviews/publicity in the
way that wives and husbands are? (No, I'm not saying it *should* be
mentioned, or that a person's private life is anyone's business, just
pointing out an imbalance in attitudes.)

Also a very good point made by Stelucia and others about the
(non-)acceptability of being happily single.

Silverfin
c***@aol.com
2005-12-23 13:37:11 UTC
Permalink
In the past month or so, I have read interviews with Charles Mackerras,
Renee Fleming, Gerry Finley, Toby Spence, which make reference to their
partners and/or children. I was walking through my office building this
evening and overheard two
snippets of conversation with the words "my wife" "my husband". They're
not *flaunting* their heterosexuality but they are introducing names
into conversation, probably without deep thought, with the expectation
that their audience will just assume the existence of
wife/husband/children and not make a big deal - why should it be
different for gay people?
=================
It's sad, but gays can't win in these situations. If they make it a
practice to refrain from commenting upon their personal situation,
their loved ones etc, a certain number of people will criticize their
diffidence. A diffidence which might stem from any number of causes --
a reluctance to say or do something that might adversely affect one's
career, an "it's none of your business" attitude toward an
increasingly intrusive media, a simple wish to protect one's privacy,
the desire to protect the privacy of a loved one, or a combination of
several of these factors or others.

On the other hand, if a gay person *does* comment on his/her personal
situtation, his loved ones etc, a certain number of people will accuse
his of brazenly flaunting social conventions, of throwing his
life-style in "our" faces etc. Whereas a 'straight' star's comments
about his or her spouse/significant other, family etc are treated as
the natural remarks of a person who has a life apart from his career.

We have a ways yet to go on this score.

Pat
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
2005-12-23 17:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@aol.com
It's sad, but gays can't win in these situations. If they make it a
practice to refrain from commenting upon their personal situation,
their loved ones etc, a certain number of people will criticize their
diffidence. A diffidence which might stem from any number of causes --
a reluctance to say or do something that might adversely affect one's
career, an "it's none of your business" attitude toward an
increasingly intrusive media, a simple wish to protect one's privacy,
the desire to protect the privacy of a loved one, or a combination of
several of these factors or others.
On the other hand, if a gay person *does* comment on his/her personal
situtation, his loved ones etc, a certain number of people will accuse
his of brazenly flaunting social conventions, of throwing his
life-style in "our" faces etc. Whereas a 'straight' star's comments
about his or her spouse/significant other, family etc are treated as
the natural remarks of a person who has a life apart from his career.
We have a ways yet to go on this score.
True, but it beats the days when you could be thrown in
prison for your sexual orientation! Progress takes time -
we're a long way from racial and sexual equality, too, but
for those of us who were there, it's certainly better than
fifty years ago!
Post by c***@aol.com
Pat
Stephen Jay-Taylor
2005-12-24 01:52:50 UTC
Permalink
"We have a ways yet to go on this score." PF


Well summarised, sir. Indeed we do.

SJT, who, for what it's worth, has innumerable stories of Tebaldi and Tina's
relationship, and could give you chapter and verse for most of them, but
knows that it would be deliberately misinterpreted hereabouts as an attack
on the diva's memory, and so, gives o'er...

o***@yahoo.com
2005-12-22 23:06:36 UTC
Permalink
Eat shit and die a slow death old man. Your mother sucks cocks in hell.

-Ortrud Jones
idiocy
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